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Justice - Stress (Dir: Romain Gavras)


(Dailymotion versions deleted)

mp4 download

Video for the track Stress from Justice's debut album "Cross". Directed by Romain Gavras, who is also working on the upcoming Justice live dvd.
         
roosfass, May 1, 2008 2:34:06 PM CEST
Reminds me of 'man bites dog'. Really enjoyed it. I was worried it might just be glorifying violence, which i suppose it is, in a way. I'm sure someone can put it into better words than me!
         
onesmallkreeger, May 1, 2008 2:40:31 PM CEST
I don't think I can put it into words sufficiently either I'm afraid...
That was knock-your-socks-off stuff.

What is it about this kind of French filmmaking that feels so bloody dangerous and urgent?
The edit is incredible.
The debatable morals are fantastic.
The way in which the visuals work with all the nuances in the track is perfect.

I can't tell you how pleased I am to finally see a video that makes me feel something. And i mean really feel something.
Lordy, it almost made me think as well........

I love this and I am now sending the link to everyone who I love and respect.

Great job all involved.
         
candles, May 1, 2008 3:08:48 PM CEST
Nice work.
         
jesse.ewles, May 1, 2008 3:25:06 PM CEST
Hard-fucking-core. :D
-j
         
bigload, May 1, 2008 3:36:37 PM CEST
antville has really missed the boat on this director. these three on his myspace page are equally impressive profile.myspace.com
         
scooper, May 1, 2008 3:39:43 PM CEST
er, i think you'll find antville already had threads on those...

it's an awesome video, powerful and driven like a car with no brakes. Totally emotive and like kreeger said, an absolutely amazing edit...

i feel sorry for anyone else who posts a video today as this is gonna completely overshadow it in terms of comments...
         
my name is legion, May 1, 2008 3:41:09 PM CEST
its getting frustrating
am i the only one who cannot access the link?
         
igor33, May 1, 2008 3:41:47 PM CEST
First off: Great filmmaking! Taking it's concept to the fullest. Very engaging and seducing in it's intesity.

Second: The point of view is very much Sarkozy's wet dream. The main concept is so fucking bullshit. No really, this is a very stupid video.

Was is the treatment?: Having black guys raping, robbing and abusing people? Paintintg the lower class in as bad a light as possible?

Don't know anything about Romain Gavras or his background.. it might be importatnt or maybe not. But to be really crass, he seems to fetischize minorities and exploite them a lot in the most superficial way in his videos. Not showing much heart, insight or sympathy. Using them as estethic devices. Just going for the effect.

Von Triers Dogme rules come to mind:
"The film must not contain superficial action. (Murders, weapons, etc. must not occur.)"
I like that one. Violence is always way too easy 'innit?

Using very modern/hip music like Justice and the great cinematography doesn't change the fact that this is probably the most conservative video I have ever seen.
         
c-dub, May 1, 2008 3:49:04 PM CEST
Holy shit! That was great. The greatest thing about this is having them turn on the filmmakers. I was already in, but as soon as i saw the sound guy running in the shot, the video went to another level. Great stuff!
         
loz, May 1, 2008 3:56:28 PM CEST
ditto to pretty much igor33 just said.

yeah i like this, yes the editing is awesome (including sound mix), beautifully made, but got to say... left a bad taste in my mouth.

i dunno, maybe i just think it's dangerous to do something as emotive and important as this without some kind of dialogue/depth? only set to a music track, for me, it can't help but glorify... eg. set within a film, in a context, i'm sure it wouldn't feel this way. but fundamentally, there's only so much i can enjoy seeing a load of people show this much random hatred. and esp to then then sit back and enjoy it voyeuristically? i dunno...

hard one. definitely made me think.
         
my name is legion, May 1, 2008 4:10:33 PM CEST
much ado about nothing
went to extreme lengths to watch this (http://www.frenchtouchmusic.com/?p=81) only to find myself laughing

this is what the french deem as scandalous?

it goes for the shock (using basically the same cheap on-screen violence a gaspar 'bullshit' noe film would do) but it fails to thrill me. it's as innocuous as prodigy's hot ride, as exploitative as simian mobile disco's i believe.

this is not gratuitous violence, this is just cheap mimicry. you want something as socially-charged - for the grown-up's only - you go for paul gore's video for massive attack - false flags.

this one here is 1/4 gta, 1/4 la haine, 1/4 clockrowrk orange, and 1/4 birth of a nation.

ps: i love the track, tho
         
onesmallkreeger, May 1, 2008 4:22:48 PM CEST
Massive Attack- False Flags Dir: Paul gore.

If we want to play with realism and social comment.
CONTROVERSY ALERT.
I always felt that Glazer's "Live with Me" kicked the living shit out of Gores for social realism.
Once again, Gore's may have been pretty and clever, but Glazer's thumps you in the gut and makes you feel something.
         
my name is legion, May 1, 2008 4:35:40 PM CEST
i was in such an intemperate mood that i mistook paul gore for martin gore, ma bad.

and yes, live with me is more powerful than false flags. (but if you want me to nitpick i could tell you that's pretty much booze for a single girl - no matter what despondent - to handle).

but i brought false flags into discussion because it goes beyond smoke-&-mirrors social controversy.

whilst 'stress' rejoices in - hm - violence, false flags understates it. however its the latter that moves me and makes me aware. its violence that manages to be both generic and specific at the same time.
         
ai, May 1, 2008 5:10:53 PM CEST
putain de fils de bourge
         
lusk81, May 1, 2008 5:20:31 PM CEST
Stunning! And yes, incredible edit.
         
antdude, May 1, 2008 5:24:18 PM CEST
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /justice_stress-directed-by-romain-gavras-/getmedia/0/stress.mov on this server.

:(
         
my name is legion, May 1, 2008 5:34:21 PM CEST
@ai - mais faut pas exagérer, quand même
         
ai, May 1, 2008 6:38:43 PM CEST
@my name is legion
what i meant was Kassovitz use that same scheme with "la haine" in the 90'. here it's even worse, it's the very same rehashing of the clichés you can watch in tv magazines. From a different point of view. What i find disturbing is that cliché is manipulated without any distance nor put in perspective. It's meant to provoke and to provoke to make MONEY or gain personal attention without any consideration for collateral damages.
But the extra shame comes from the fact that all these guys were born with a silver spoon in their mouths (Costa-gavras is his father. He made a few courageous films on political and moral matters) Kind reminds me the rich girls who dresses like poor in art schools to be more "cool". It's not romain first try at this (gypsies etc). In a way it's a capitalistic promo. A well made exploitation of an urban phenomenon with nothing to say but with something to sell. Another proof that Justice is a bunch of poseurs full of shit.
         
my name is legion, May 1, 2008 6:40:32 PM CEST
word!

"It's not romain first try at this (gypsies etc). In a way it's a capitalistic promo. A well made exploitation of an urban phenomenon with nothing to say but with something to sell. Another proof that Justice is a bunch of poseurs full of shit."

and so are 'simian mobile disco'
         
ai, May 1, 2008 6:59:29 PM CEST
When Daniel Levi did this video for Prodigy they had the intelligence to reject it:
videos.antville.org
         
senilitynow, May 1, 2008 7:01:16 PM CEST
a clockwank orange.
         
bigload, May 1, 2008 7:03:11 PM CEST
seems there can be many interpretations of this clip (along with the rest of his) which is what makes it a success. it's smart enough to understand its prejudices and waits for our reaction. better than 99% of anything i see on here
         
spielban, May 1, 2008 7:06:25 PM CEST
I'm with c-dub on this. In my perception the video isn't exploiting the realistic situation of gang-violence in Parisian suburbs at all. On the contrary, it *critisizes* the exploitation of this phenomenon by the media. It becomes clear near the end, when it's revealed that the kids are actually accompanied by a professional camera crew (rather than just some gangmembers who happen to have a camera with them) and even more so when the kids actually turn against the sound- and cameramen.

The video critisizes the sensationalism around gang violence in France.

On another level, this video also represents the other side of Justice. The darker, more raw, more agressive musical style from their early Waters Of Nazareth days. In the past year, that part of Justice became overshadowed by the more poppy, brightly colored world of D.A.N.C.E. and DVNO. With Stress they (try to) prove that they still are who they once were. In that respect I just love that scene in the video where the kids switch the music from the car radio to D.A.N.C.E., just moments after which they smash the radio to pieces. Nice little self-reference.
         
ai, May 1, 2008 7:23:08 PM CEST
Thank you spielban for your comment but don't you think that last scene with the sound guy come a bit late? And that it's a rather faint "revelation". I think it reference 'man bites dog' (motion picture crew) more than tv reporters. Do you think you can criticize sensationalism with sensationalism without giving any key?
         
boymeatsgirl, May 1, 2008 7:49:59 PM CEST
Hosting another here;

rapidshare.com
         
serch, May 1, 2008 8:45:35 PM CEST
great video. like if it was directed by michel haneke
         
shatner, May 1, 2008 9:21:27 PM CEST
I agree with the comment that it is a great video, and a great piece of filmmaking. I don't think anyone will argue with that.

It's just a shame that a few kids will see this set to their favourite artists' music and to go out and kick off a few wing-mirrors. You can count on it.
         
hassinator, May 1, 2008 9:54:37 PM CEST
what's to talk about? this is fucking brilliant

rock and roll people
         
lisanowak, May 1, 2008 10:22:58 PM CEST
What a total assault of the senses!

What a great ending -- I totally agree with c-dub here.

I see the La Haine comparison. But I think La Haine was an argument against thug life. This is not.(and re: Justice, I'd say they're more pretentious sacks of shit than poseurs... that's why I love the moment when they smash the radio playing DANCE. Fucking great.)

I FUCKING LOVE ROMAIN AND I LOVE HIM EVEN MORE NOW.
         
scooper, May 1, 2008 10:40:09 PM CEST
is Romain related of Costa-Gavras?
         
lisanowak, May 1, 2008 11:03:41 PM CEST
ai sez it's his father...
         
spielban, May 1, 2008 11:34:14 PM CEST
@ai: yes, I do agree that it does come late and it's just a very short, easily missable, fragment of an already long video (in fact it wasn't until after my second or third viewing that I started to see the possibility of multiple visible levels/layers in what the director wants to say wath this video). But the fact that is does come in so late could also suggest that it is effectively meant to be a plot twist or resolution, because otherwise they could've either left the whole camera-crew-thing out of the video alltogether or they would've given it more attention in the first part.

What I also find somewhat interesting is that the gang members are wearing the Justice logo on their jackets. A very wild theory could be that the gang members who let a news crew follow them around (and are thus letting themselves be exploited, selling themselves to the media) but kick them in the nuts eventually anyway, could represent Justice's own soft, commercial side versus their more hardcore raw side. I'm probably looking for way too much meaning behind this video though. ;)
But that's pretty much the only explanation I can think of right now for why the band would directly associate their logo with a violent Parisian street gang.
         
bobafettich, May 2, 2008 12:29:06 AM CEST
im fascinated by this theme....
         
rolfek, May 2, 2008 12:52:10 AM CEST
My car was damaged in this video - do I take a criminal | civil litigation out against Gavrass, Stress or the kids? Or all of them?

Slaughter and May (UK) have reviewed the tape and suggest the video would permissible as evidence under French Law.

Nah - Just kidding :-)

I do wonder how much was staged and how much wasn't

They could get into some trouble if it wasn't staged.

That is why we have this thing called the "theatre" and "actors"

watch-able but bad after taste
         
progosk, May 2, 2008 1:07:02 AM CEST
bigload: the 'ville nominated the guy for best narrative video and best unsigned director last year, so: no.

as regards the video: very powerful stuff (shot&stylez&edit), but way fucking wrong. however you put it, justice/gavras are exploiting pent-up social grievances to up their own cred. slick promotional operation - politicks it ain't.
         
bodysong, May 2, 2008 1:46:55 AM CEST
utube: www.youtube.com;

very rad video.
         
lex halaby, May 2, 2008 1:57:56 AM CEST
Brutally fantastic. About as raw of an aesthetic as you can find anywhere.
         
lisanowak, May 2, 2008 2:02:35 AM CEST
I actually disagree prog. I think the vid has political weight. Justice & Romain may have come up in middle/upper middle class. I don't know. The question is, does that make them any less qualified to talk about lower class issues? Which really begs the question, why does the identity of the band/artist matter so much when looking at themes?

Yes, your work as an artist emanates from how that person was raised and how they live now. However, that doesn't mean that because you are part of a certain class that you can only make work that is relevant to that class.

I don't think the goal of this vid is to paint the lower class in a bad light. I'll agree that I found the violence fun to watch, which, yes, igor33/dogma 95 points out is a problem. It's easy to do violence because it's fun to watch and in part, it exploits the gang members so we, the voyeurs, can have some fun. But I think all of that fun gets turned on it's head in the end. The gang comes after us, spits on us and beats the shit out of us. And that's what empowers them.

And... The issue here is if you find it progressive or not, which, i get it if you don't.... nothing's new under the sun, right? But, I think there is an argument to be made that the vid IS progressive... I'd love to hear some pov's on that one...

And, about the Money. I think we all know that videos are a capitalist venture. No one had a problem with it until now? I don't understand what your point is unless you're still searching for the Third Cinema...

am I off here? or is this where the conversation is going?
         
sharpiesharpesharpe, May 2, 2008 5:44:24 AM CEST
wow, this guy is never short of finding incredibly fresh cast
         
captainhairy, May 2, 2008 8:40:57 AM CEST
this is a brilliant piece of filmmaking. Romain's work used to be really messy and random when he was doing the 'kourtrajamé' stuff, but this and the dj mehdi vids are great.

but i TOTALLY agree with ai & prog. Justice are a couple of rich kids who grew up in Versailles, and Romain is not exactly from the hood either. Its a bit funky for them to jump on the social commentary wagon for their personal profit.
Its great to interpret the video a million different ways, but fyi in a recent interview in "Les Inrocks", when asked about the political significance of the tanks in the shadow puppets video, Romain answered "dunno, no significance, i just think tanks are cool". i think he's more of a 'shoot first, think later' kinda filmmaker.
         
progosk, May 2, 2008 9:20:35 AM CEST
indeed, lisano:

" Any attempt, no matter how virulent, which does not serve to mobilise, agitate, and politicise sectors of the people, to arm them rationally and perceptibly, in one way or another, for the struggle - is received with indifference or even with pleasure. Virulence, nonconformism, plain rebelliousness, and discontent are just so many more products on the capitalist market; they are consumer goods. This is especially true in a situation where the bourgeoisie is in need of a daily dose of shock and exciting elements of controlled violence (7) - that is, violence which absorption by the System turns into pure stridency. Examples are the works of a socialist-tinged painting and sculpture which are greedily sought after by the new bourgeoisie to decorate their apartments and mansions; plays full of anger and avant-gardism which are noisily applauded by the ruling classes; the literature of 'progressive' writers concerned with semantics and man on the margin of time and space, which gives an air of democratic broadmindedness to the System's publishing houses and magazines; and the cinema of 'challenge,' of 'argument,' promoted by the distribution monopolies and launched by the big commercial outlets.

In reality the area of permitted protest of the System is much greater than the System is willing to admit. This gives the artists the illusion that they are acting 'against the system' by going beyond certain narrow limits; they do not realise that even anti-System art can be absorbed and utilised by the System, as both a brake and a necessary self-correction.(7)

Lacking an awareness of how to utilise what is ours for our true liberation - in a word, lacking politicisation - all of these 'progressive' alternatives come to form the leftist wing of the System, the improvement of its cultural products. They will be doomed to carry out the best work on the left that the right is able to accept today and will thus only serve the survival of the latter."

measure this video's political weight by its net effect (which you well know is zilch).
what's more, i'm convinced "third" filmmaking is possible, even in music videos. it just operates on a very different level. an example? vincent moon.
         
my name is legion, May 2, 2008 10:20:02 AM CEST
'so the pierce screwed up your face
(cos your) girlie liked the taste
your infected by the tease
political
yes it's fucking political
everythings political'

everything, except this sorry ass video.
         
igor33, May 2, 2008 10:32:23 AM CEST
The reason for the camera crew is not political. It's probably just because director finds it "cool" to smash them up at the end, and also it's a stylistic choice which gives the video it's p.o.v.

You don't have to look for subtext. The politcal stance of the vid is VERY clear. Immigrant kids from the suburbs are evil assholes who trash, rape, steal and murder.

SERIOUSLY. THIS VID IS PRETTY MUCH A VISUALIZATION OF THE ATROCIOUS BULLSHIT NEO-NAZIS USE IN THEIR PROPAGANDA AGAINST IMMIGRATION.

Sarkozy campaigned for office using the same arguments, publicly calling the young people in the suburbs of Paris for "Scum". Like Sarkozy, Romain displays a complete disinterest in the background and situation of these kids. The fact that they have no chance of getting any jobs, and have practically been fucked and left behind by the french government and society at large does not interest him.

CLEVER MARKETING STRATEGY:
Give Justice a bad boy image. The band themselves are way too soft to communicate this by themselves. So.. Instead we play on hardcore racist prejudices.. Take som kids from the suburbs give them justice jackets and paint them out to be the meanest fuckers on the planet. Because: noone would believe Justice would rape and abuse, however some kids from the suburbs do this all the time, right?

Seriously, as stated before, this is truly amazing filmmaking. But I fucking hate this video and the cerebral and moral vacuum of its creators.
         
my name is legion, May 2, 2008 10:40:45 AM CEST
are there only 3 antvillers (me, igor33, and ai) who dont fall for this video's so called 'weight'?
now, regarding social commentary: this one here qualifies uk.youtube.com,
whilst
justice's video is nothing but style over substance
         
ai, May 2, 2008 10:51:24 AM CEST
Pretty everything has been said right now but i'll make a last charge because the video upset me in a very special way;
Political agenda my ass. The video was made only to choke. If there's a message i'd like to hear it. Criticizing the medias? come on the video do a lot more damage than any tv news. As someone said before it's a rather conservative video bringing the worst social and racial clichés. It would make any supporter of the national front party (extreme right) very happy. Obviously the director never thought of it. Gratuitous and irresponsible.
Fictional comments of the dir and the band:
"Oh and yes collective raping is so trendy right now."
"we thought that using lower end class people will bring something emotionally charged to the track".

I sincerely hope this video will bite them back in the ass.

As i reminder Qu'est-ce que c'est degueulasse?
www.youtube.com
Let jean-luc school you about the power of an image.
Now i'll shut up.
         
framescourer, May 2, 2008 11:35:38 AM CEST
Comparisons with La Haine are thematically correct, but a little short. In Kassovitz's film we encounter one of the gang with his supportive, aspirant lower-middle class family. There's the tragedy of that film. Here the gang's just a bad lot - there's no internal conflict or opportunity to pity.

The Man Bites Dog references are also clear but played fast and loose. There are clearly two units in the film - e.g. the car escape is shot from within and without the vehicle - making belief suspension tricky.

There is moral comeuppance in the film: content the police arrive late on; aesthetic the embedded film crew suffer from their association.

But here's the thing. The video is used to promote a single. My appreciation of the music (btw, I didn't understand any lyrics) is linked directly to my apprehension of the video. Whether or not Gavras wants me to like the music, he certainly wants me to be excited by the package.

I can either agree that it's exciting and therefore accept that I'm morally soiled. Or I can reject the frisson of the experience and bury any possible appreciation for the music with it. Justice lose out.
         
nu_shuz, May 2, 2008 11:56:09 AM CEST
poorly concieved and utterly without merit. there is no message here at all, just the basic, dumbheaded thrill of unrealistically graphic screen violence. everything here has been done better elsewhere, and with relevance and justification. i'm drawn on the issue of whether gavras is 'entited' to make videos about 'lower' classes, but i'm pretty fucking sure he has little or no real interest in their plight. the whole thing screams contempt to me.
         
shoplifter, May 2, 2008 12:55:11 PM CEST
being a professional shoplifter, I argue that it is more exciting to sit back and enjoy the dumbheaded thrill of graphic screen violence. These are very cool images. The guys look cool. The violence is cool. We all love violence in art. Detached, beautiful violence. Look at GTA4. Gives us a thrill.

This video is entirely apolitical. It's like whasserface from pussycats in a balaclava- you aren't trying to tell me that anyone on this video or that video thought about consequences or what they were SAYING? C'mon! This is about coolness. Fucking radness. Cool aesthetics. Cool shit.

Giving the video a 'message' would have been a lot less cool.
         
bonsaikittenz, May 2, 2008 1:06:21 PM CEST
this video has generated a lot of debate, which in my mind makes it a success. possibly an unintended form of success, mind you, but nevertheless...
         
the national macho society, May 2, 2008 1:40:05 PM CEST
Is a middle/upper class director 'entitled' to make a video like this? What the f*ck is wrong with you people. Are black directors 'entitled' to make white artists videos?
Is this video relevant and justified? Of course it is. Just ask someone who lives in Paris or watch French news. Being politically correct just avoids the problem.
Is it a 'good' promotional video? Of course it is.
Are Justice actually that talented? Beyond their singles, absolutely not.
         
my name is legion, May 2, 2008 1:51:12 PM CEST
This is NOT violent. Cavalera Conspiracy's was violent.
This is NOT cool. Natural Born Killers is cool.
         
paaaja, May 2, 2008 1:58:00 PM CEST
the beginning of the video reminds me cunningham´s work for aphex twin - youtube.com
         
progosk, May 2, 2008 2:14:56 PM CEST
easier movs here and here.

the director opines:
“La brutalité peut paraître nuisible, mais chez 75, la boite de production, pas d’inquiétude à avoir. On nous la montre bien aux infos, pourquoi critiquer des artistes qui la dénoncent?”

some local lashback.
         
my name is legion, May 2, 2008 2:21:30 PM CEST
bang bang
         
eeeel, May 2, 2008 2:29:59 PM CEST

         
boobybra, May 2, 2008 2:49:30 PM CEST
Matt & in fact anyone else that wants to read and comment.

You say on your e mail below "I love this a lot". I'm interested why. You are of course entitled to LOVE anything, it's so much better than HATE. But then is your love, love of hate and darkness?

So what is this supposed to be? A documentary, not quite I think, no balanced argument or explanation. A statement on society? Well not really a statement, more a glamorisation. A music video? Well if that is it, what does it say? Nothing? Is it supposed to inspire kids? Does it says we can make this to sell a track, make the director or band look cool, make people hate each other more, fuel negativity??? Is it responsible to put it out without any explanation? Is it responsible to put it out? Is it art, but then is all pushing the envelope and doing absolutely anything modern art?

Do I think it's well shot? Yes, excellently shot. The reason I ask all the above questions is not to have a go but to hear your responses that may help me make up my mind as what I think about it.
         
nu_shuz, May 2, 2008 3:19:30 PM CEST
macho... i was using the word 'entitled' in a contentious way, which is why i put it in inverted commas.

yes, of course black directors are 'entitled' to make videos for white artists, but if their work is irresponsible or misrepresents it's subject, then there's gonna be some backlash... right?

is the video relevant or justified? what issue is it REALLY highlighting, and who the FUCK is it helping?

is it a good promotional video? no - it's creatively and technically fucking awful.
         
choppedtoms, May 2, 2008 3:30:28 PM CEST
all effect and no cause. in every sense a hateful video, all the more for its technical superiority.
         
progosk, May 2, 2008 5:15:15 PM CEST
the other half of kourtrajmé replies to similar critique they faced for "sheitan" (extract); also: both (in '03) on their background, ideas and influences.
as an afterthought, seems the kourtrajmé collective's a pretty legit joint - the ed banger promo department on the other hand...
         
my name is legion, May 2, 2008 5:24:47 PM CEST
sheitan, lol
ils ont eu le courage de déclarer qu'il s'agissait d'un 'horror'. où va le monde?
         
the national macho society, May 2, 2008 6:37:32 PM CEST
nu_shuz...'entitled' jibe wasn't really meant for you, just picked up on how you stated it.
Whenever you produce something of this sort that will be seen by the general public you run the risk of misrepresenting something. Is it irresponsible to make a video like this or a film like A Clockwork Orange or Rambo? Time tells.
Just because the video doesn't give you an answer to the issue doesn't mean its not a valid statement about youth gang violence in Paris. Can you make a video on this subject and "help" people without becoming pretentious or preachy? I don't see how.
On a promotional level it is perfect. No press like bad press. This kind of backlash is exactly what the director and the band want. A video like DVNO is much better video, in every way, but its forgotten in a week. This video will be talked about.
Creatively it is bad. Its a base level, provocative piece of work but technically it is very impressive. Producing a video like that is not easy or cheap. If your looking for creatively and technically awful videos just watch MTV2, Zane will sort you out.
         
teepeerec, May 2, 2008 7:36:18 PM CEST
EEEEEL...YOU ARE THE MAN...OR WOMAN.


I THOUGHT IT FELT LIKE A DIRECT RIP OFF OF APHEX TWINS AND C.CUNNINGHAM. HOW DID ANYONE ELSE NOT REALLY TALK ABOUT IT?

GREAT SIDE-BY-SIDE COMPARISON.
         
lusk81, May 2, 2008 8:39:54 PM CEST
PROG: How do I read those replies from Kourtramje? Is there an app I use to revert french into english?

This thread has become a little rediculous. I find it so fascinating that people are so ready to attack violence in art and entertainment as being irresponsible but seem unwilling (at least in the US) to be conscious of our current state of affairs and the manipulation used by every day media.
         
progosk, May 2, 2008 9:40:36 PM CEST
babelfish/googletrans
         
lisanowak, May 2, 2008 9:42:44 PM CEST
I knew taking French in school would come in handy one day...
         
lisanowak, May 2, 2008 10:32:25 PM CEST
I think everyone should take a moment to look at Garavas's other music videos. Poverty-striken kids and working-class men are common subjects in them and there isn't a trace of contempt for them. I would argue that he is fascinated by their life and would be shocked that anyone calls thug life a plight or accused him of not caring. Regarding coolness, you make a good point Igor, it's 'cool' to smash them up at the end. But I read that the end is a twist and he establishes that he likes using that device in Signatune.

Framescourer makes a great point. In Kassovitz's film we encounter one of the gang with his supportive, aspirant lower-middle class family. There's the tragedy of that film. Here the gang's just a bad lot - there's no internal conflict or opportunity to pity. To a certain degree, this vid is a reaction to La Haine (like the way Control was a response to 24 Hour Party People) that says, fuck your pity Kassovitz. I think a lot of these issues are also raised in HBO's THE WIRE, which, if you haven't seen it yet, get off your ass and do it. (I'm warning you now. It takes time to get through all 5 seasons. Find someone to watch it with, like a gym partner or something, otherwise you'll watch a season and lose sight of the end goal.)
         
dim, May 3, 2008 1:22:28 AM CEST
66 comments for a video thats involves a bunch of black kids going on a violent rampage. lol.. this shit never gets old.
         
familiar, May 3, 2008 1:46:45 AM CEST
Hilarious. The only thing being exploited are the people who find this controversial (or even interesting).
         
r-dogg, May 3, 2008 2:25:58 AM CEST
You know who doesn't put up with this kind of shit? Ted Nugent. He'd shoot these kids without a second thought and then kick this message board in the shins for ruminating on the semiotics of violence and the capitalistic and/or/versus political intent of this video. It's not this video that worries me; it's that Ted Nugent is out of control.
         
adam-and-eve_it, May 3, 2008 1:31:08 PM CEST
Yeah! I like that shit!
Good work guys.
         
otc, May 5, 2008 3:53:50 AM CEST
Kind of missed the boat on this one bc antville was giving me error messages all weekend. For what it's worth the video does establish the documentary conceit from the very beginning (6 seconds in to be exact). Count me in the strong filmmaking but thematically corrupt camp.
         
knotoryus, May 5, 2008 12:39:37 PM CEST
Strong. But if you're looking for comparisons: why is everyone missing this one?
www.youtube.com
Some scenes are identical copies (the guitar smashing, etc.)
         
progosk, May 5, 2008 1:09:34 PM CEST
erm... not, knot. (unless you want to count this prequel too.)
         
wing, May 5, 2008 3:16:41 PM CEST
refreshing. the response to the car radio playing D.A.N.C.E is a golden.
         
otc, May 5, 2008 7:03:04 PM CEST
perhaps this was a bit of a prequel as well.
         
scumface, May 6, 2008 12:30:21 AM CEST
this is great - but it was done a few years ago, with more emotion and more thought youtube.com (sorry for the crap quality)
         
mwalker, May 13, 2008 5:38:39 PM CEST
With this behavior being such a reality, especially in London right now, I would have thought that creative people would sort to entertain rather than bore us. Nothing new, interesting or even that shocking here, and not even a plot that seeks to show redemption or consequence. I believe that Gavras will indirectly have blood on his hands through this creation.
         
progosk, May 15, 2008 4:27:16 PM CEST
after all the debating, justice respond (translation of sorts here); r. gavras, for his part, can't.
         
my name is legion, May 15, 2008 5:04:08 PM CEST
why do you keep posting all this? whats the point you trying to make by linking zillions of interviews & shit?
that wanna-be video is yesterday's news.
         
kayser_sauze, May 15, 2008 5:33:05 PM CEST
ta gueule
         
my name is legion, May 15, 2008 6:01:08 PM CEST
justice - stress, as frowned upon by baudrillard

kayser, promise me you read and acknowledge the headline at least.
         
progosk, May 15, 2008 6:14:54 PM CEST
"frowned upon"? did you bother to read the article?

"However, from désaffiliation to desafío – defiance – is no great leap. All these excluded people, these disaffiliated people, be they from the banlieues, or Africans, or “native” Frenchmen, eventually turn their disaffiliation into defiance and act it out. It is their only (offensive) way to stop being humiliated, or left behind, or even taken in hand. And I am not so sure [..] that they want to be reintegrated or taken in hand as we have hoped. Perhaps they even prefer to burn cars than to drive in them – à chacun ses plaisirs. I’m not sure that their reaction to an over-calculated solicitude would not be instinctively the same as their reaction to exclusion and repression.
[...]
Nothing will prevent our enlightened politicians and intellectuals from considering these events as minor obstacles on the road to a democratic reconciliation of all cultures. But everything indicates the opposite, i.e. that these are successive stages in an insurrection which is still far from being over."

he's pessimistic, that's for sure, but he's wiser than to poo-poo all this, as you are tempted to.

oh, and: "wanna-be"? i 'd say you're hardly in a position to lob that salvo...
         
my name is legion, May 15, 2008 6:19:35 PM CEST
nay, i havent read the article, im just a poser, just like the video.

want me to use quotation marks? would that make irony easier to detect?

lol: you're editing your posts. wanna-be as in disingenuous, ma friend. fake. sham. not that i could ever become the professional he is.
         
kayser_sauze, May 19, 2008 10:46:59 PM CEST
De son coté, le responsable de la maison de disques indépendante Because, Tahar Chender, a affirmé à l’AFP que «l'idée de base du clip», suggérée par le réalisateur, était de faire «une parodie du traitement de l'information par les grandes chaînes hertziennes». Il a également souligné qu’il ne s’agissait pas de «faire un coup marketing» et que «pas un euro ne sera fait sur ce clip».
         
familiar, May 19, 2008 11:24:36 PM CEST
The label is saying this is a parody? Well at least we cleared that up... :|
         
cliff_greene, May 24, 2008 5:10:52 PM CEST
This video made me think of Funny Games. It also creeped me out because although Funny Games is filled with violence Michael Haneke has a definite point and it is made clear. Micahel Haneke involves the viewer in a way that makes you feel as though you are partly responsible for the action taking place on screen and he gives you a lot to chew on. This video feels like a snuff film to me. The violence is beautiful and drawn out and we seem to be watching it for no other reason than the fact that it's well-made in every way. I'm not against this sort of filmaking but I find it very unsettling to be the backdrop for a popular dance act such as JUSTICE. I don't want to see this video on MTV or on Itunes or anything. I don't think it should be something the general population will just stumble across. Because if it has a point it's very well-hidden and it just comes across,to me, as sensless violence. Albeit, in a very well done and spellbinding way.
         
choko, June 10, 2008 3:39:58 PM CEST
analyse d'oxmo puccino :

Le "Stress" de l’artiste « the most wanted » :
La première fois que j'ai vu le vidéo clip de « Stress » by Justice, j'ai été frappé par la réalité de cette fiction.
Il s'agit bien d'une fiction montée et mise en scène d'une manière totalement inédite.
Il faut selon moi la prendre avant tout pour ce qu'elle est: un vidéo clip, une illustration visuelle d'une oeuvre musicale et par conséquent de la juger comme tel.

Certes les images sont violentes voir choquantes, cependant je n'ai jamais pensé à de l'incitation à la sorcellerie lors de la projection du « Projet Blairwitch », ni crains pour ma sécurité le jour de la sortie du jeu vidéo « GTA IV ».
C'était déjà le cas en 1972 lorsque est sorti Orange Mécanique qui s'est vu retiré des salles à l'époque et qui aura du attendre 2000 avant d'être à nouveau projeté. Et pourtant, il s'agit de Stanley Kubrick à la réalisation et d'un film devenu culte depuis et ce malgré une violence reconnue de tous...

Est-un clip raciste? Je ne crois pas
Ai-je la naïveté de voir des comédiens avant de voir « des noirs et des arabes »? je ne pense pas.
Mais peut-être est-ce le rapprochement avec des émissions « d'informations » hertziennes beaucoup moins fictives, qui provoquent des réactions souvent anonymes et violentes. Ou quand réalité et fiction se confondent ...
Personnellement j'ai perçu ce vidéo clip comme l'illustration d'un reportage qui se retourne contre ses auteurs avides de sensations fortes et à ce titre, le travail de Romain Gavras est à mes yeux une prouesse technique;

Je lis ici et là que clip manque de propos mais ne reflète-t-il pas plutôt une crainte enfouie en tout citadin envers ces contrées lointaines que sont ces quartiers périphériques dont les reportages et les tristes faits divers dressent un portrait dur, parfois réel mais trop souvent incomplet? « Il est en effet facile de juger la température de l'eau à vu d'œil, et sans y mettre les pieds. »

Beaucoup de choses horribles gravitent sur le web mais chacun est libre de les visionner.
Je pense qu'il ne faut pas chercher des messages partout. L'art ne s'explique pas systématiquement. D'ailleurs ce « débat » me rappelle l'arrivée sur les ondes de « Pucc fiction » et de « le crime paie » des Lunatic , nous avions à l'époque été taxé d'artistes subversifs encourageant la violence...et pourtant on évoque encore aujourd'hui ces chansons comme des classiques du rap français...

Si j'écris ce post ce n'est ni pour justifier le contenu de ce clip, ni pour dénoncer ceux qui le dénigrent.
Justice et Romain Gavras ont fait ce clip mué par une volonté artistique. Les réactions des gens face à la violence est selon moi compréhensible, peut-être même rassurante.

Mon propos est simplement de donner de la perspective à cette situation.
Nous ne parlons ici que d'un clip. Pas d'un fait réel. Les incidents violents qui ont eu lieu récemment en Chine, en Birmanie ou au Proche-Orient me semblent autrement pus violent et nécessiter notre intérêt et notre inquiétude à tous.

chapeau l'artiste

oxmO,Puccino
mai 2008










+ celle de chris marker :

La fable chinoise de l'imbécile, du doigt et de la lune a tellement servi qu'on éprouve une certaine crispation à la trouver au bout de sa plume. Pourtant j'ai beau tourner la chose dans tous les sens, je n'en vois pas qui s'applique aussi littéralement au communiqué du MRAP, portant plainte contre le clip du groupe Justice dont « l'intention raciste est avérée ». Le mot inadmissible ici est « avérée ».

Tout le monde a le droit d'exprimer une opinion ou un blâme, mais il faut une sacrée dose d'outrecuidance pour décider, non de la portée éventuellement négative d'une œuvre, mais de l'intention intime de son auteur. Car il y a, figurez-vous, un auteur, Romain Gavras, et autour de lui un groupe, Kourtrajmé, dont les productions jusqu'à ce jour avaient comme caractéristique de déplaire tout particulièrement aux racistes. Ce pourrait être déjà un sujet, au moins, d'interrogation.

Mais d'abord, marre de ce terme de « clip » pour désigner n'importe quel très court métrage. Tant de longs métrages aujourd'hui ressemblent à des clips étirés qu'il est permis de saluer un clip qui ressemble à un film. Je risque un autre mot, en m'amusant d'avance de l'incrédulité qu'il va susciter chez certains : un poème. Un poème noir, violent, sans concession, sans alibi, magnifiquement « écrit » (encore faudrait-il qu'on s'intéresse à l'écriture cinématographique, vaste débat) et dans la ligne d'un certain nombre de ces poèmes qui dans toutes les langues, à un moment donné, ont dérangé et troublé, et dont certains en effet ont fini devant les tribunaux.
Montrer ce que personne ne veut voir, c'était en d'autres temps une fonction de la poésie. Cet objet non identifié qui tombe dans un paysage audiovisuel où par ailleurs la violence est partout présente, mais avec assez de roublardise et de complaisance pour être acceptée sans états d'âme, j'aurais tendance à le comparer au parallélépipède que Kubrick dresse, dans « 2001 », près d'un troupeau de singes endormis. Incongru, incompréhensible au point que c'est à force de n'y rien comprendre que s'éveillera l'idée qu'il y a quelque chose à comprendre. Les singes ont évolué. Les censeurs, ça reste à voir.


chris marker 2008
         
progosk, June 10, 2008 4:00:11 PM CEST
fascinant. thx choko. (current bone to pick: the mrap is suing gavras&co for their "racist intentions". the mind boggles.)
a double-stanley for romain, wowz. nice, marker's poetry simile.
         
kayser_sauze, July 14, 2008 12:55:34 PM CEST
Le Mouvement contre le Racisme et pour l'Amitié entre les Peuples a annoncé mercredi 9 juillet qu'il retirait sa plainte contre les auteurs du clip musical Stress du groupe Justice afin d’« éviter toute ambiguïté » avec une autre action judiciaire enclenchée par le Front National.
Le MRAP avait déclaré en mai dernier que la réalisation de la vidéo était une « immonde production » et « que le message du clip est porteur de stéréotypes et de clichés racistes et participe à une vision caricaturale de la réalité des quartiers populaires et de leurs habitants ».
Mouloud Aounit, actuel président du MRAP, s’est entretenu plusieurs fois avec Romain Gravas. Gavras, lui, s’est expliqué publiquement sur son clip dans l’édition du magazine « Le Monde 2 » du 26 juin. Le MRAP regrette toutefois que « l’article ne lève aucune ambiguïté quant au message politique véhiculé ».

[de cetero: Marker's text was initially published on Poptronics.]
         
progosk, July 15, 2008 12:12:05 AM CEST
putain! kourtraj should kick him out, pronto, for having broken two golden rules of theirs: "je jure de ne pas justifier la gratuité de mes scènes gratuites : violence, sexe, drogue, racisme, animaux" and "je jure de ne pas écrire un scénario digne de ce nom".
marker's of another caliber:

écrit le < 11'06'08 >
MR MARKER, UNE RÉACTION A CETTE AVALANCHE DE RÉACTIONS ? MERCI.

écrit le < 12'06'08 > par < chris >
Never explain, never complain.
C.M.
         
msm, July 16, 2008 8:35:50 PM CEST
The Justice and Surface 2 Air collection dropped online.


         
flux_jw, November 7, 2008 5:58:10 AM CET
While he was in town for the West Coast premiere of A CROSS THE UNIVERSE, we sat down with Romain for this interview on flux.net.
         
dama margx, January 10, 2009 8:52:41 AM CET
the end and the whole thing reminded me of the amazing film Dog Bites Man
en.wikipedia.org)

watch if you haven't and if you have guess what? F69 watch it again!
www.youtube.com
         
my name is legion, October 18, 2011 12:00:47 AM CEST
















 

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