Im all for 50million+ Jewel encrusted skulls, anthropology.net

and that can be a reference to videos as well i guess.

fam, all i remember about the KLF is that they burnt a million quid in the name of art and then went a bit quiet for a decade.

@ nu_shuz: Yep. They made a few million, did some insane stuff on national TV, had a good laugh by burning millions of dollars at a press conference on their private island, and then dissolved The KLF. They also deleted their entire back catalog in the name of art.

@ legion: ART in itself SHOULD NOT BE EXPENSIVE AS A RULE. That is pretty simple concept. If you want to go ahead and make a high budget film, or music video, that is fine. But crying like an over-stuffed baby because your budgets aren't big enough to "create your art" is ridiculous. Adapt. Learn to make something without spending $40k. To put a baseline price on the creation of your artwork is so gross to me. If something is cheap (financially) and it sucks, it's because the person who made it isn't good enough. It's not because it's cheap.

I have not directed a video. I have no desire to. But I have been involved in their production on many different levels.

@ budget: If you think the bar for creating art that "endures" -- whether music videos, feature film (look at Pr1mer!), paintings, drawings, sculpture, web sites, software, whatever -- can be measured financially, I think that's sad. Do I think this video was the best thing ever? No. Do I think it was clever, virally attractive, and a good fit for the song? Yes. It was.

I made no mention of the purity of art, or the necessity of art to be free. What I am saying is - as a rule - it should NEVER be thought of as an expensive, exclusive prospect. Everyone should be able to create it, but your talent (conceptually, technically) should be what limits you, not your budget.

Anyway, YouTube automatically removed the video; their system does that when it's smart enough to tell a video was uploaded by someone who doesn't own the copyright for the accompanying audio. I think the algorithm that detects this is an expensive piece of artistic shit.

Sorry fam, but some art is expensive, there's no way around it. It doesn't matter how hard the artist works, there are just some things out of your reach if you don't have the money.

If your artwork is going to be cleverly recut videos off of youtube then maybe your only cost is going to be editing equipment and time (these still count as costs and are expensive btw). However, lets say your artistic vision requires costumes, and extras, and a certain type of lighting to set a mood... then art is expensive.

I think it's interesting that you say: If something is cheap (financially) and it sucks, it's because the person who made it isn't good enough. It's not because it's cheap. I often wonder if Gondry or Jonze or Matthew Barney were trying to create their videos on today's budgets if people would still consider them artistic geniuses. They'd still be making good stuff, I'm sure, but their full potential wouldn't really be tapped. It takes a lot of money to make a Buddy Holly or a Human Behavior...

I think your point irks me a lot personally for two reasons:

1. It's this sort of attitude that record labels take advantage of in young artists ("good art doesn't have to be expensive right? so make our artist a masterpiece on your dime!"). Labels LOVE hearing people like you, it means they get to profit off of your hard work without investing any of their own money.

2. Directors make their money off of a % of each budget. So unless you're living off a trust fund, a healthy budget will not only ensure your vision comes to life, it ensures that you pay rent that month.

I don't disagree with your fundamental points at all. But I do think this kind of approach needs to change.

I know many directors rely on having a budget for all the misc. and sundry that is "necessary" these days. But after having been to enough catered lunches to feed a small impoverished nation, I just don't see a lot of these trappings as part of the creative process, or intrinsic to having a fully realized vision (and I know I am being a bit of a dick by pointing out things like catering).

BUT you talk of lighting, so let's look at Dogme 95, and the use of natural light (and I'll point specifically to The Celebration here).

Matthew Barney had more money than he knew what to do with. I think the results are visually dated at this point. And when it comes down to it, I feel like the cash made up for a lack of craft in some cases there.

Gondry and Jonze spend much of their time making their high budget films and videos look low budget. Ironic, no?

To wit:

1. Many labels are short of money. The good labels are doing what is in the best interest of their artists. Don't start pointing fingers at "the man" here.

2. Directors need to re-think things the same way the rest of us are!

Familiar just lost all credibility with the catering comment. You HAVE to feed your crew, especially if you aren't paying normal rates, or paying them at all.

Oh jesus, where is my eye-roll emoticon. Even with the disclaimer afterwards you couldn't tell that was tongue-in-cheek?

(Also where did I say anything about not paying a crew? If you can't afford it, don't do it. Figure out another way to make what you want to make.)

familiar, i'm starting to think that maybe you aren't so much about art being free as as you are about people working on your art for free?

So, are you just going to make speeches about art being free on set when your DP asks why he has to do the job of a gaffer, grip, and electrician on your job? Or when your crew realizes that maybe they'll have to pay for their own meals while working on your free shoot? That's where money goes fam, it's not like "big budget" videos exist so rich people can shovel money into a furnace. It takes a team to make things happen, even on little independent films or tiny indie videos. Unless you're shooting with a camera you own, without any actors, locations, props, or costumes, it costs money (either in dollars or donated man hours) to make things happen.

It's just as silly to ask an architect to make a building without money, or a conductor to perform a symphony without money. There are simply too many people and pieces of expensive equipment involved to think that great things can constantly be done on the cheap.

MY art? Not my art. THEIR art. And how it gets done isn't my business. I'd rather not be anywhere near a set.

Directors aren't doing anyone a favor by making a music video. It is a collaborative effort, and it's just as much an honor for them to be allowed to work with the music as it is for the musician to receive what they have done.

What I am saying is that times are changing, technology is changing, and the outlets are changing. You are making video for the web and small-screen media devices these days. Not for TV. The content and the process needs to change to reflect that.

And let me tell you -- multi-disciplinary individuals are the ones that will succeed. The director who is a great DP and effects guy is the one who will continue to make a living. Marginalizing yourself by focusing on a niche is going to be the undoing of a lot of talented people. So yeah, your DP better be ready to muck the shit when they have to, and be GOOD at mucking that shit. And this isn't just about videos; it holds true for all creative and technical endeavors.

The architect who is a CAD and visualization and concept expert is going to be far more prized than someone who says, "no, I only work pencil to paper." (And the architect who is also an engineer? Wow...)

Almost sounds like Familiar really doesnt care about the process of making videos, or the blood sweat and tears that go into them

I can't tell if you just aren't reading what I wrote, but your response comes off like a non sequitur.

If you feel like what I am saying is an affront to your craft, it has more to do with your pretensions than my words.

@familiar I have not directed a video. I have no desire to. But I have been involved in their production on many different levels.

oh, ok then. i thought you were a fellow artist. since you're not one, everything you write here about art sounds as hollow to me as, quote, me dancing about architecture.

ok, back to the game now - barca - lyon is far more interesting than you.

I am an artist, you dim-witted cunt :) It's how I make my living when I am not insulting entitled brats on the interweb.

let me watch the game, go write a song meanwhile and share it with the world for free via pirate bay or mininova. lets make art really CHEAP

Matthew Barney's images are outdated? Great, now I have to wait until the revival for my taste to be in sync with the cool kids again.

"Visually dated". Not outdated. As in the money that was spent was trumped by inexperience. It improves as he does, of course. When did the reading comprehension drop to a grade 2 level around here?

Fam, you're officially a dbag. You don't know what you're talking about, you aren't smart, please shut up.

Sure, budget. And any project that takes eight years to produce is not going to show marked improvements in technique, from start to finish. Especially when the person putting it together started from a point of relative inexperience. From the staging to the editing, you can see a real progression in form that isn't limited to the over-arching story-lines within the films. And it illustrates the point that ability and skill are the bottleneck, not money.

What is interesting here is that some of you have your heads so firmly planted in the sand (or up your own asses) that you fail to see any sort of big picture. I urge you to keep asking for your "big budgets" in the face of economic meltdown and the increased accessibility of creative tools and outlets for those who have the vision to utilize them.

how do we get familiar to leave?

Don't worry, trueblue, I generally don't hang out with such self-celebrating dumbasses. Keep yourself so firmly mired in the present and you're sure to be the same sad sack ten years down the road.

your future has come and gone.

could somebody please unplug familiar thanks.