hi kidz, if you made a video so bad that the band/ label wont want to release it but shoot another video instead, what are your chances of still getting paid? the band are contractually bound to pay, and there's no clause in the contract to state otherwise. legal action advised? any kind of advice on this? thanq
         

what happened?

oh do tell.

         

Did your video suck so much they had to shelve it? it's about time.

         

grabs popcorn

         

And puts butter on it. Along with a super sized slurpee.

         

Surely they gave you most of the budget before hand?

Of course they have to pay as you have had to spend money and pay other people to work on it.

But yeah they should have given you at least half the budget before you shot. If they hadn't paid you and you finished the video, you should have held it ransom, and said you're not finishing it until they cough up.

What pricks!

         

yeah they have to pay man, the legal thing could get messy, and maybe hurt you from getting future work. so i would suggest trying other avenues of getting all if not some of the money you're owed. if they are thinking about shooting another video, that will cost them money anyway, so maybe its possible to suggest a re-edit or some additional shooting to fix whatever issues they have. and at the end of the day, if you are happy with what you shot, at least it can live on your reel.

         

that seat taken?

         

it happens to everybody, happened to us two times. First time was for Columbia and they obviously paid in full. Second time was for Downtown and even tho they took forever they did pay back in full. The majors have their reputations to back up, the indies will put up a fight but if they have any business acumen they will pay...eventually.

         

hi kidz, thank you for your replies.

its a low budget for an indie band, who are very likely to become internet darlings soon (if they havent already, thanks to their us & uk pr campaign). ive been comissioned via radarmusicvideos.com, been paid 2/3 of the budget, shot the video, warned them its a ROUGH CUT and, upon realizing it wasnt my best work and not exactly 100% to treatment, offered to do a re-shoot/ re-edit for the same amount of money they owed us (the remaining 1/3, i didnt ask for extra money). needless to mention we went in our pockets to cover the production costs, which surpassed their original budget, but we didnt ask for anything more than what they owed us.

the video is bad-ish, indeed, the kind of video i would be very likely to bitch about on antville, but its not awful. its not beyond repair, though, a couple more shots and everything could jell together at the end.

however - awful video or not, they owe me money. the predicament im in is - should i stress out and push for the re-shoot thing? or concentrate all my efforts on getting my money back via legal action?

         

Are you friends with the band?

         

no, we even come from different countries - me, the comissioning agency, and the band.

         

I guess it depends on whether you're that bothered about finishing it.

If they're not happy with the rough cut, haven't they just sent you a list of thing's to change or have they freaked out and told you ditch it?

If they've said ditch it, it still makes sense for them to pay you the monies owed and since you've been polite enough to offer a re-shoot/cut just to at least take a look.

         

         

If you want the rest of the money you'll likely have to deliver a final master, even if they don't like it and even if they said to ditch it. Complete your end of the contract before you can hold them accountable to the rest of theirs. Otherwise they'll turn it around and say they never received their product, so why pay?

the contract usually states that they won't pay the rest until they've received the masters, so there's prob no place for ransom holding.

if you think you can save it with a reshoot and still make the contracted deadline, then it might be worth it to save your name. If not, you'll fall short in an area of the contract which might release them from the obligation to pay the rest? i think.

otherwise, i'd say wrap it up, send the master, collect your $$ and walk away with a lesson learned.

         

so, what does radar say?

         

Does the video edit look like what you promised in the treatment?

         

@gregsinora - they did send me a list of things they werent happy with (and i agred in most aspects, thats why i offered a re-shoot) but they said they want a new video altogether and that theyll shelve mine. im not sure theyre familiar with the 're-shoot' thing, though.

@weddingvideo - thats what i wanted to do, deliver master tape and all, but now that things are in this stalemate...

@progosk - that i should be more humble and accept the Client's whims (which eventually offered to pay some money of the remaining sum, but they havent up to this point). that the client is right and that i am wrong.

@budget - 75%; biggest problem is the narrative, its unfocused and not clear-cut like in the treatment and not at all funny.(its a treatment that was shortlisted by bbc for their electric proms scheme or smth and the delivery doesnt live up to it). im not happy with it either, i said that already.

         

Ive always have had a bad feeling about Radar. I signed up when it started, and in theory its a pretty good idea. However I always had the feeling Radar didn't do much in the way of mediating and this kind of proves that. I tried ending my account years ago but still get briefs. Any service that allows $100 briefs should be a warning to begin with.

         

Are we talking about big chunk of cash? Or a couple grand? Personally I think the world has gotten too small to fight over one job. Since you agree the video didn't turn out, I would probably just walk away. It would be more troubling, I think, if you had delivered exactly what you had proposed, and then were fired because the client changed their mind.

PS~ I like radar. I think the site is democratizing the business. :)

         

roughly 1500 euros, thats what they still owe me, but the more i think about it, the less i feel like fighting for it. ill eventually end up paying this money myself and just forget about it, yeah. lesson learned.

ps: thats not democratizing the business; the same way bands are backed up by labels, filmmakers on radar should be backed up by the agency. its filmmakers (along with bands & labels) that keep the site running. and im not talking about the subscription fee, which is small, like 20 quid or so. anyway, thanks for your input. at the end of the day, two things im sure of - next time ill make sure i deliver to treatment 100% and no more videos through radar for me. the site is too amateurish for me.

         

^ Lesson learned. Your work needs to improve.

         

legion, respect for bringing this to the forum. victus get fucked.

         

Noooo, rold you bit! Everyone else had managed to ignore him!

Don't feed the trolls!

         

greg: this is one of the rare times matei's not being trollish. so, positive reinforcement, and all that, k?

leg - the only way i could see that as ever working, is if you edited it to concentrate on a more hypnotic, mental thing between mirror-head and the girls. get rid of the horseing (all of it) and the non slo-mo dancing. not sure what would come out, since styling and lights are not exactly luxury-grade. props for outing allthesame; would be interesting if radar came to comment...

         

prog: I meant Victus

         

victus=troll? never noticed (so can't be that bad a one...). whatevs.

         

@progosk - thanks, but the horse's a must - cant get rid of it. cant re-work it that way. to be honest, the only soultion would've been a re-shoot rather than a re-edit, but its all good now, its been axed already.

so, ill have to pass on your piece of advice, but thanks nonetheless.

         

Legion, get rid of all the stop motion paper cutouts and stick to the narrative about the teenagers in love. I think if you did a day-for-night grade on the performance it would save the overexposed footage. Ditch the gorilla mask shots- it's overdone and pretentious.

         

To my defense, I am not a troll. I do not post dollar van videos. I do not go off and disrespect people. Look at my track record, for it talks.

My beef is with Legion, and this is my chance to get him back. Time and again he has a tendency to be an asshole, to put down people's work whom are much better than him in regard. My rule of thumb is, it's a matter of opinion. Some choose to express it being a dick, others choose to not. I'm having fun toying and making fun of his situation however unfortunate, it is a decision he chose to make public. And that's my opinion.

So a Troll I am not, end of story. It's just maybe he's just not very good, see ya laters.

         

@budget gorilla = horse :D yeah, basically youre right, only can not get rid of it, they loved it in the treatment but day for night, never thought about it, you might have something going on here. thank you

@victus :

         

Victus: So you've come to this post with the sole purpose of provoking or offending someone? Past history aside, I'm pretty sure that makes you a troll.

I guess legion slagged off one of your videos unconstructively, so I guess your comments are fair, yeah?

"Some choose to express it being a dick".

         

@gregsinora really man thanks for standing up, but i dont mind victus, hes just taking the piss

         

@Gregsinora dude it ain't about that, it's not a serious thing. But I do concur that Legion tends to be ultra critical and a put down, so I gotta give em a taste of his own medicine. If that makes me a high school bully, or a Troll, then so be it. Why not post the video? and let the world see it? so Greg if you think this is serious, then you lack a sense of humor.

I bet Legion's a good sport about it. Look at it this way:

"And who that fk are you anyway? I catch more wreck in a minute than let you rhyme for ten days" -Guru "Blowing up the spot".

You mean "taking" a piss? cause that's on you.

I think that's more time than he deserves, seeing that there's no video. And is a video site.

         

I speak english, man. Laters.

         

Oh legion, I believe I made my point clear. I don't resort to those tactics, man. It just feeds the flame so you, don't get that benefit. The post overshadows your topic, is that what you want? let's shake hands and move on.

Back to videos.

         

         

so where's that famous video?

         

So where the fk is the video? all these comments and no video, what's the point if I can't laugh at the all powerful legion?

With buttery toffee, of course.

         

i had it removed, because were still going to use some of it, for a teaser; when that's released, you can go have a look / a laugh

         

Hello any popcorn left?

Sorry I'm a bit late to the discussion, only just picked it up. Here's a few things:

• Radar isn't an agency. We don't represent clients. We provide a means for commissioners and directors to meet each other.
• We try and provide a fair basis for exchange. The terms and conditions Directors sign up to is they agree to make a video according to the budget, timescale and treatment they submitted. 'Legion' by his own admission didn't do that.
• It's important Radar is seen as a fair place to do business. On that basis we defend the rules that everyone has signed up to - if a commissioner has paid a substantial amount of money to get a video everyone agrees is not to treatment, then we support the right of the commissioner to either get what they want or end their agreement with the director.
• We support directors when commissioners break our rules.
• Spence, I think you mean you are still getting the briefs newsletter, not that you are getting access to briefs. You can unsubscribe from the newsletter anytime. I'll check it out and do it for you.
• Nothing wrong with $150 briefs for some people. We also have $7,500 briefs.

all best

Caroline