The Digital Demon cometh...
Andrew Heringer - Racecar from Brandon Fraley on Vimeo.

         

Shot on the infamous Red One camera. ;)

K

         

soooooo boring i want my 4 mins back

         

Warning: Top 4 issues forthcoming... ;)

Meh, it's a one-taker and I think it's decent as a video but the real reason for the post was because the promo is a pretty good example of Red footage and I really like how 'clean' the footage looks when viewed online.

The Red, with it's 4k capture (apparently more like 3.2k really), lack of grain, and low-contrast starting point allows filmmakers to stay all digital and have wickedly high-res footage that, when compressed for the web (flv/QT), tends to looks cleaner than S16 or even S35 footage that's been digitized, dumped to HDCAM (or more typically DBeta), and then compressed to flash or QT.

All my work is shot on film and no matter what we do it never looks as clean as Red footage when made web-ready. And, since most people probably view music videos online nowadays, it seems more and more like shooting on high end digital, staying all digital, and then compressing from the high-quality source is the way to go (for the best looking online presentation anyway).

I still haven't seen too many Red shot promos on TV but whenever I've watched DBeta or HDCAM footage at post houses the stuff looks pretty damn good. It's definitely in the S35mm ballpark when viewed on a Broadcast quality 32" monitor.

My only issues with what I've seen thus far are:

1. Red footage always seems to have a tighter than normal shutter. I.e., everything looks like it's shot with a 45 degree shutter.

2. Wide shots feel as if they lack resolution and they seem to go a bit too soft.

3. No one pushes the colors strongly; everything Red I've seen is saturated a very normal amount or (most commonly) it's desaturated. Which makes me wonder if the footage won't take strong saturation well.

4. On the too-often occasion you'll see a shot that inexplicably feels very video.

Sorry for the 'Digital vs Film' themed thoughts. I hope you'll forgive me and I'll now return you to your regular scheduled programming...

K

         

I have yet to see a single promo/commercial/film/etc that convinces me of 'how incredible the red is'. This could've been shot on dvcam.

         

It seems like 2008 is the year of fast-forwarding, cause every other week there's a new promo that lingers on one shot for absolutely no good reason. It's almost taken over stop-motion's role as the go-to filmmaking tool for signifying some sort of clever artiness.

         

I used the RedCam once. Once was enough. It's a ball-ache.

         

I've used the Red Camera for 8 Videos so far. Yes, sure it has its issues, but bang for the buck, it is unbeatable in my humble opinion. If i had the budget for 35mm i would probably go that route, but i rarely do.

Agreed, most stuff that has been filmed on red so far looks shite, but that is more down to operator error than the fault of the camera. I won't bore anyone with the techie stuff, but if you know what you are doing and have a good DIT, it can look very good and is pretty easy to handle.

Some links to a few videos I shot on red for anyone who is interested:

www.pixelloft.com www.pixelloft.com www.pixelloft.com

         

Thanks for the links mr.nick! Very cool to see more Red footage. The stuff looks solid and I'm always a sucker for anamorphic flares. :)

K

         

i thought you can't shoot anamorphic lenses w/ the red? a Red tech told me that...

         

Death to performance videos, please.

Great DP, at the service of videos that follow the template and branch nothing new. That's just my opinion, and no reflection on your skill. All three links offer variation on the same template, amazing! what are these video directors thinking?

         

Yes, you can shoot anamorphic on the RED. Whoever told you that clearly insane. Even Soderberg has been shooting Ana on the RED.

Death to performance videos??

Clearly you haven't dealt with many record labels Alanedit!

         

all three of mr nicks links offer examples of how to shoot on a RED properly and create something that looks shit hot for the money. these directors are thinking - do I want this next job? do I need to make a living?

         

1. this video's shit
2. red camera - much ado about nothing (its not that ive worked with it, its just that i happened be around some hi res scan footage and i wasn't at all impressed - gimme back my ole kodak telecine. red's still too murky for its own good; the 4k resolution notwithstanding, it doesnt work miracles on big screens either. in terms of hd cameras, the one which impressed me most was the viper.
3. film good, digital bad; but if the budget doesnt allow for film stock, hvx 200 will do the trick (great colors, too bad the menu's so complicated; speraking of which, im still awaiting the new and reportedly improved hvx200A). after all, beauty's in the eye of the DP.

         

Again, mr.nick thanks for showing the work. it's appreciated.

K

p.s - i had also heard that Red had issues with Anamorphic lenses but you've done it and so you'd know. :)

         

Thankyou Kalstark

There are a lot of haters out there when it comes to RED and i can see why. It is so cheap, 90% of the material that comes about is from a cheap ass productions without the skills you need to make something look good. It is a tricky format and needs careful color work to counteract the effects of the high dynamic range look which comes straight of the sensor. It isn't as forgiving for bad cinematographers as the HVX200, that's for sure.

I have filmed on RED, VIPER, 35mm, HVX, F900, Varicam.

Viper is superb, but doesn't touch the RED in my opinion. I have some side by sides from two videos. Viper is in many ways more of a pain in the ass to shoot with. Considering the RED is a 3rd of the rental price of a Viper it's a no brainer for me.

Red is not as emotive or naturally beautiful as 35mm in my opinion, but in the right hands it can get very close. For the budget it can't be easily compared with the HVX.

My key point would be. If you can afford it, have several REDS to save on boot times and other down time switching formats becuase the camera does eat up production time a little if you only have one of them. Get a propper RED rental company with some expertise like sonic films, the post factory etc and get a really good propper film telecine colourist.

         

i think the real point of this thread is that it doesn't matter WHAT you shoot on if the IDEA isn't good. I'd be happy to watch a video shot on Sellotape if it was original..

         

I disagree scooper. I think the real point of the thread was debating IF red can look good. Aesthetics may not be important to some directors but depending on your background and directing style, physical beauty and cinematography can be as important as concept / narrative and in many ways, with shrinking budgets, a more complicated and challenging achievement.

Now pulling off both.... isn't that the hold grail.

         

i was referring to the ACTUAL video that was posted at the top of this page!

i get your points too and agree that there are horses for courses...

         

i dunno, maybe its the web compression or smth, but were the red camera as good as you're sayin it is, i fail to see that in this video. as lusk81 said it, by the look of it this could easily have been shot on dvcma.

on a second thought i dont think its the compression. not even peter jackson's 'crossing the line' 1k grabs that i got to see, weren't as grand as id hoped. and i guess his budget easily surmounted yours.

i, for one, don't like it, but on the other hand i'm very curious about shooting formats. its what you shoot on and how you do it that makes your video look great. fuck ideas, lets see some styleee

ps: id be curious to see those side by sides. would you care to upload them somewhere? thanks

         

My Name Is Legion, This is not my video. I was only chiming in to comment on how people shouldn't dis a format based on a couple of not great videos that they have seen. After all, i have seen some real junk my bro brought back from New Jersey film school which was filmed on panavision 35mm film cameras, and it looked like DV.

If you look hard, there is some really nice stuff shot on RED, including some of my work i believe. Soderberg has done some nice things with it and quite frankly a long list of great directors and DP's.

Agreed, Peter Jacksons crossing the line is not great looking in many respects, but the format was new and the RED team were all about showing off the technical attributes of the cam including resolution and dynamic range.

Red can look clinical and indeed has a tendency to do so, however it has the potential to look like almost anything you want becuase of the sheer resoltion, colour information and dynamic range. The restrictions of shooting on many formats do not apply. But the potential has to be exploited by people who know what they are looking to achieve and more importantly how to do so.