When did this site get so sucky with shitty posts? Please stop posting crappy videos that don't pertain to music videos.

         

I kind of agree. Might not be "shitty post" per se, but the general direction the antville feed has taken. Feels like it went from undiscovered, fresh, new talent, material and ideas to --> all that is music video, good or bad.

Maybe best to update less but with a better curation of works?

         

It all goes back to an argument over what constitutes a 'cool' music video. To a certain contingent on this site, the definition is simple: indie rock videos with minimal post effects, lo-fi style, and high concept gimmickry.

The problem is that the site's tastes have become (and in my opinion should be) broader than that. If you're just talking about some of the hate-baiting posts by simontelo or whatever, that's one thing, but overall I feel like antville is still providing what it's always provided- links to new music videos that other people, for one reason or another, find noteworthy.

If you're disappointed that the site isn't just a collection of links to Animal Collective and Crystal Castles videos, Pitchfork.tv might be a better fit for you. If you feel like quality videos are being overlooked, contribute them yourself.

         

Yeah well, perhaps at this particular point in time the whole of this page does look pretty bleak!

But,I find great stuff here constantly & frankly am at a loss as to an even remote comparison. Totally open to suggestions though. After all it IS user driven. As for moderation, its a matter of trying to take the good with the indifferent.

         

edema - just to clear up your seeming confusion: there's no incoming feed beyond what people post. curation/moderation round here is up to: you. the only way to make keep the 'ville top tier is to post mo bettah vids.

         

Maybe the site needs votes?

         

the underlying helma/antville structure doesn't do votes. on th'other hand, as evinced by critique after last year's late event, i'd say we're closing in on Awards season...

         

This will sound obvious and will most likely spur some sort of backlash but I will say it anyway... there just doesn't seem to be that many quality videos being made recently. Possibly instead of just (as progosk says) posting 'bettah' videos maybe we should all stop celebrating shitty videos or whining about budgets or even commenting here at all and concentrate on making 'bettah' videos.

         

Yeah, there's definitely seems to be a dry spell right now. Is the bad economy hitting us art-kids already? Btw, the Of Montreal video I did last summer comes out around Dec 15th if anyone's curious.
-j

         

It is an open weblog, so people can post what they like. The layout of the site is simple but ok.

         

simple and okay? - voting system would be nice. moderation also. Everyone can post. Thats might be a problem. There should be some mail adress where you can send in sugesstions. And a team would disguss if they post a clip or not. And they would post clips in a unique style. Same screenshots. Same text formating.

This site has not change since 5, 6 years. And thats a problem. We can all sit and wait till the spammers take over this site.

I wish the site would more look like these sites: motionographer.com www.feedhere.com

         

ah, doom&gloom, luv it, luk.

you're wrong, tho. choice by committee would guarantee the ville's demise in an internet minute. mo'grapher & feed are fine for what they are. it isn't just coincidence that the ville's cred is different.

thing is: t'ain't the 'ville that gets old, it's just the oldies that get tired. time to move on, 's all it is...

         

although im relatively new to antville, ive been checking motiongrapher for quite a while now, and they're not the same. antville looks more informal and its better to stay not moderated. antville's for fun, motiongrapher's for inspiration and shit. but the reason i never comment on motiongrapher is i am unable to write a "commentary that sparks discussion or introspection about the creative process"

         

Agree with Legion, the informality of Antville is what makes it. Someone said it’s like the Coliseum once I agree there is rather allot of bloodlust but a certain amount of truth remains at the end of the fight and the good work always stands out. Motionographer is more of a glossy boring catalogue for the advertising industry and all its antiseptic white space and bland ad-land sales talk.

There is allot of unnecessary shit posts and somedays this place looks like Youtube but I think if you started capping it the circus would pack up and leave and may never come back.

         

shush, vidb, 'bout whitespace - it's one of the secrets of the 'ville's timelessness...

         

Where else would the circus go, really.

Btw, prog, I say we get the nominations in from Dec 5 - 12, voting Dec 12 - 19, awards handed out Dec 20, followed by Christmas. Anyone?

         

Hmmm...Yeah, its something about that whacking great orange bar and the red text that makes the white somehow invisible.

         

you must be snowblind.....

         

i just want to say that i like the pagedesign of motionographer, etc... more than this. And a voting system and the comment field. And the layout. About the content i "hate" 95% of the motionographer stuff. because its "the bussines". You can the the new "Adidas" Spot. A 3D Rabbit morphing into a rocket and shit. Advertising with 1 Million Dollar Budget for 30 Seconds.

Nothing that stays in my mind like "Come to Daddy" or "some old Jonathan Glazer works... ore whatever. A good Idea is more important than the money. When both came together: fine. But i just don't like the "style" images of ads. Where every tree is a perfect tree. Made in maya oder some other 3D Tool.

I love motionographer for the design and the page itself. But not for the content.

;)

         

cmon, motiongrapher introduces us to jaw dropping stuff, amazing stuff, gimme a break. whats wrong with huge budgets and expensive looking work? you sound like a hippie

         

i just say that i don't want the same content here. I mean... if motionographer would only post about music clips... they would show us timberlake, madonna, destinys child, etc... but not a "late of the pier" video. Motionographer IS great. Its totaly different to antville.

         

I like the discussion that has spun from my post, but know that it came from seeing a few videos recently that really have nothing to do with the current Music Video community. Though they have music played over images, that's not were these videos should be posted. Videos that you and your buddies made to a Radiohead song should be posted on Youtube, not here.

As much as I love music numbers in films, posting a clip from a Monty Python film isn't what most readers here on anville are looking for. This should go for montages over a certain song as well.

And if your posting commercials or shorts, put them over on the Shortville, not here.

Another thing. Though I respect all videos made, especially ones that are music videos made during a very important time in it's history, videos from Neneh Cherry just raise questions on who and why these videos are being posted. Try and make an effort to at least include Directors names, not to mention the one she did with Michel Gondry.

Though the music video world is in a weird spot, Videos for top notch artist, along with indepentant artists are still being made by directors who take their craft seriously everyday.

It's sad when I have to watch Subterranean on MTV2 at 1am to find the lastest creative videos when all I needed to do before was come to this site.

         

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but one of the reasons people might not be seeing as many "cool" videos these days, is directly tied to the drop in budgets. Put all of the Director's Label dvds on shuffle and I guarantee whatever comes up first has at least 200k attached to it. All of the "golden age" work of Jonze, Cunningham, Gondry, Glazer, etc had budgets that just aren't seen anymore. Creativity is severely limited when directors don't have budgets to work with. There's no way around it.

The budgets in the industry can no longer keep up with the expectations of some people on this site. If you're wondering why the latest hot indie band's new video isn't a groundbreaking visual achievement, it probably has more to do with the paltry budget than the director's chops.

For some reason, a lot of people on this site want to complain about the state of music videos and at the same time, ignore the reality of the industry. As long as we don't recognize that the biggest issue in our favorite genre is a lack of funds, people will be consistently confused and disappointed.

         

I like what you have to say budget,18 , and I agree completely. Though I think low budgets are a poor excuse for the lack of good videos out there. Some of the best videos have been made with low/shoe string budgets, and probably could have been made for even cheaper then they were. More creativity and skills come out of working with what you don't have.

As I mentioned, I agree with you though. Good Point.

         

"Videos that you and your buddies made to a Radiohead song should be posted on Youtube, not here." oh, really?

"As much as I love music numbers in films, posting a clip from a Monty Python film isn't what most readers here on anville are looking for." yeah movies suck, right?

"This should go for montages over a certain song as well." montage, shmontage, eh?

kurem - that high horse o' yours? give it a rest. (oh, and: POST MORE COOL MUSIC VIDEOS!)

         

I do wish there were a tiny bit of moderation here, just to delete things that 1) are not a music video or 2) are reposts. If people's posts keep getting zapped, they might start paying attention to what now are customs but maybe should be rules. (I totally recognise though if Kev et al would rather dig their own eyes out with rusty spoons than have to deal with the shit/timesuck of moderating.)

Other than that, let the circus roll on. I love that this place is home to all of Crystal Castles and Beyonce (I heart pop) and first/second videos by new directors who just want to share beyond their home town/country.

         

Thank you Kureman, but still, I think you're missing my point a little:

"Though I think low budgets are a poor excuse for the lack of good videos out there. Some of the best videos have been made with low/shoe string budgets, and probably could have been made for even cheaper then they were. More creativity and skills come out of working with what you don't have."

Although the labels would love to make that their motto, I just don't think it's true. Tiny budgets handicap the director's vision and severely limits what can be put on screen. Today's directors have to spend less time being creative visionaries and more time being accountants. Instead of asking, "what does this song make me want to say with film", director's have to ask "what can I accomplish for this song with no money". It dramatically effects the caliber of work and the level of artistry.

Good videos can still be made under these conditions, but they will be much rarer, which is why we're having this discussion in the first place.

         

kurem - i think the point budget is trying to make is that the age of career directors producing an interesting and developing body of work is now over. list all the really seminal videos of the last ten years and notice how the vast majority of them depended on big budgets.

developing directors need bigger and bigger budgets. who can blame them for hitting creative brick walls when there is no real living to be made, and nowhere to go?

         

On the budget front, I can say from personal experience you really do lose the will to live after a while... You know how much better everything COULD be if you could afford this bit of grip or that camera or these lenses, and didn't have to cram it into one day, and most of all you feel terribly responsible for your crew, that here they are coming out AGAIN for about 1/4 of their normal rate...

         

maybe this will just make the division between resourceful, clever directors and everyone else more apparent. to that extent the no-budget situation is a good thing.

         

"maybe this will just make the division between resourceful, clever directors and everyone else more apparent. to that extent the no-budget situation is a good thing."

I'm just going to weigh in, somewhat pointlessly to add: since when should director be judged predominantly on being resourceful and clever in a 'more for the money' type of way? Those directors may win videos, but they won't make the best ones in my honest opinion.

I'd rather see a well paid for good video than a clever and resourceful shit one.

bigger budgets = more possibilities = better videos. QED

         

hey so i want to take this back to ways antville could improve...

one thing that ive often thought about is finding a way to highlight "hot" threads. Its frustrating to have to go to the second antville page to open thread thats become "old" but is still getting a bunch of posts.

Perhaps above Recent Comments we could have a hype machine esque aggrigator that lists the 3 most popular threads going on at that particular time. that would make it so that everyone could continue to follow good threads like this one even after they move to the second or third page.

this might be hard to do. but it would def improve our collective experience here.

         

might make sense, a hot threads thing. (the only way this was adressed was by making the front page a lot longer, in order to avoid stuff disappearing into the back too early.) i'll let you know if the architects can come up with a plan.

         

making the front page a lot longer?

oh man. Sorry. I have to say that: That will not fix the problem. Scrolling down or switch to page 2. Whats the difference. Find some webdesigner and create an own blog system. and get a team of 10 people together. And these are the only one who are allowed to post. And all the others have to submit sugesstions via email.

So every post will have a clear design. And clear linking. And you can put specials like "ads" or "from film" or "concert" clips at the sidebar... like "motionographer". The Quickies Section.

Two years ago every second clip was cool. Now i came here and have to deal with 100 of differen video hosting sites. and some posters wrote long texts and some posters post 10 Vids in a row.

I think you have to change something. seriously.

         

i think you have to gyob, seriously.

         

I'm staying out of the circus, but I will say this: Youtube killed the video director.

The era of creating something you've never seen is over, when cross referencing substitutes ideas and fresh interpretations.

Who does Antville belong to anyway? this forum is starting to sound more and more like the beverly hills raquet polo club.

         

alane, luckily antville belongs to everyone who posts here. videos.ant, that is, like all the other .antville pages/sites. the underlying helma/antville architecture is the open project of a mainly austrian collective. the whole thing is uniquely independent.

         

alane, luckily antville belongs to everyone who posts here. videos.ant, that is, like all the other .antville pages/sites. the underlying helma/antville architecture is the open project of a mainly austrian collective. the whole thing is uniquely independent.

I have my own little minimalistic blog. Just because "antville" is "uniquely independent" doesnt mean that you can't improve this site a little bit. Talking about "the site is for everyone and this is the conept of this site" ist just a bad excuse. If the only thing that you can imagine of is to make the front page longer. I mean... what can I say. If the site is getting worse... you can allways say: the posters change... and we have nothing to do with it. I'm out of this discussion. Improve it or not. I was a fan of this site... but not anymore.

I'm looking forward to: cliptip.blogspot.com www.monostep.org www.videology-tv.com www.shotsringout.com www.boardsmag.com

i checked many links from this site: www.videoville.org

but only the 3 above I visit weekly. Cliptip seems to be not updating anymore. Or sometimes he is not updating for month. And boardsmag is a little to "commercial". and monostep.org/blog/ is just one guys opinion of good videos... but it mostly fits with my taste. But of course I check videos.antville.org because its classic!

And i just read the word "selectahs". So this site will stay as "no selectahs".. everyone can post... and have to drive through "spam posts"..- i have to think about that this may also be a good thing ;)

Now i've got a great idea (imo):

a "Two ranks" split blog would be cool. One the left everyone can post... and on the right site the moderators present/pic post from the left side. to "present them more". (sorry for my bad english). I see this method on a news site like "heise.de" for example. So nobody would get pissed. Everyone could post. But the moderators got the chance to pic some of the post out of the mass. What do you think? of course... it's more work than change the "number of posts" shown on the front page. .

         

1. the amount of thought you're putting into this is appreciable.
2. the longer front page thing was done in the past, it was not a proposal for what might be a useful change now.
3. there is no one who will implement anything but the most minimal changes to videos.antville. this is a fact the site will have to live with
4. i, for one, happen to think that one of the things that has let antville survive and indeed consolidate its standing since its inception in 2002 (six internet years ago!) is precisely its peculiar specifics. which is why i don't believe in mucking around with them substantially. (you might have a look at metafilter for a very similar, and similarly successful, approach.)

         

The bottom line: If there's cooler stuff out there, post it yourself.

And stop whining.

         

kev! only just saw your remark about awards dates

"nominations in from Dec 5 - 12, voting Dec 12 - 19, awards handed out Dec 20, followed by Christmas. "

timescale looks 'bout right to me, though 4/5 days for noms, and four for votes is probably a healthy maximum (vis-à-vis the stuffers...). so maybe: call for noms: 9th dec, closing 12th weekend for processing call for votes on finalists: 15th, closing 18th awards on 19th (cause it's still a weekday...)

whatsayeth, 1&all?

         

supremo! imo

         

"Alanedit, 19. November 2008, 15:39 I'm staying out of the circus, but I will say this: Youtube killed the video director. """

agree i also said that in one of my antvillle posts, vol IX

         

I really don't think that ALL community-based websites need to be built to Web 2.1.3 or whatever specification and be entirely feature compatible with websi.te or vid.eo or whatever the fuck just like not all videos need to be made to capture the 15second/preview screen attention of YouTube surfers now. I like that this doesn't highlight popular threads more than others - usually you just look at those, and you'll look for the "new, exciting" talent that has a connection to what you already know without sifting through a greater assortment. I like that we don't have comment rating and AJAX sliding accordion tabs and gradient lozenge buttons and our own embedded video protocol. Let me be clear: I love these things on many websites, many websites do this very well. I have no interest in new websites having to restrict the new technologies they implement for the cause of some reactionary wild-west internet fantasy. I just think this is unique and purposeful and as minimal as an academic journal without floating pop-under ad banners and self-serving comment whores and racing to post things first to get important votes so that everyone can click one of the thirty little community aggregate site logos on the bottom of the page and spread your single link post without commentary across the globe, which is why most of the people that actually make music videos and use the internet will talk about things here rather candidly.

Look, it's not hard to glance at the front page here and see which videos fit with whatever it is you want out of this site. I will agree that lately there have been a higher percentage of useless fluff videos, but as long as someone can type in "cool music videos" in google and come here, there'll be shit.

         

also, progosk - spot on with the metafilter comparison

         

"as long as someone can type in "cool music videos" in google and come here, there'll be shit. " on which subject, tho yahoo has antville in 2nd place for that search, on google it's 11th (using quotes even 21st!). incidentally, this explains why there's still plenty of daily traffic from a smashingmagazine post back in january - folks do the above search, and then click through from there. might be something to do about that...