Wait a second, we have a whole post on Joy Division sneakers (where was the 'that's not a video' police on that one?) but no one links the most talked about hip-hop video of 2007? For shame.

         

the song is hot, but this video is only "the most talked about hip-hop video of 2007" because it features so many big name stars. otherwise it's pretty boring and forgettable. and i'm fairly certain all last week on antville was spent talking about a certain high-profile hip-hop video. or do british folks not count?

         

is it blasphemous to steal from biggie?

         

Not posted because because it's a shitty video. It's a Walker Texas Ranger episode with a yellow filter put over the whole thing. The vignettes don't really do much to accentuate the guests personalities even though Lil Wayne gave them plenty of material to work with. In fact Lil Wayne's performance is just pretty horribly filmed in general, they filmed him in profile for some reason and used crappy white flashes in the editing. Not anywhere near as fun or cool as it should have been.

Oh and is it blasphemous to steal from Biggie? Yes.

Does posting a british grime video directed by W.I.Z. represent an interest in hip-hop? No, not really.

         

You're never gonna hear me say that the Ville is interested in hip-hop, but how was that Dizee clip NOT a hip hop video? because it is "grime"? The Brits have so many names for sub-genres and sub-sub-niches of musical styles that there is probably about one artist in each of them.

This DJ Khaled clip is generically bad. Getting this many artists together, even on multiple days, gives me a headache just thinking about it. Doesn't make the clip any better but the good news is the "star" of the clip, Khaled, barely makes a peep. I wonder how much they spent on this.

         

and who is this Gil Green who now warrants a Hype Williams style "Presents" title credit at the beginning? I feel like you gotta make yourself a brand name before doing that.

Wouldn't it be funny if indie directors started opening his videos w/ big 3D letters: PATRICK DAUGHTERS PRESENTS... BRIGHT EYES in.... etc.

         

Dizzee is definitely hip-hop, but his video gets more love on the 'ville because it's directed by a popular rock video director and generally resembles a rock video. Antville does give a hip-hop video love... when it's dressed up like a rock video. Maybe the better question to ask would be 'is antville rockist?" The Gil Green video doesn't fully capatilize on the size of it's budget/concept/stars, and I probably won't be giving it repeat viewings, but it's at least one of the bigger videos released this month and I think it deserves a post.

         

oh fuck off with this tired youse-hip-hop-haterz bullshit. if and when hiphop videos merit attention, seems to me they get plenty here. when they're dime-a-fucking-dozen, they don't. live with it - damn!

         

Not trying to instigate anything, but I do think it's an interesting point to discuss, especially when we're talking about what determines a 'cool' or 'uncool' video. But hey, if the subject matter is a little too contentious, I could always go back to google image searching Cold War Kids-patterned Reeboks.

         

I agree with Progosk. Personally I feel we have already put the antville-rap thing to bed. You're a bit late, spit.

And this vid is only 2 days old, no? a week old. I caught the end of it on BET earlier this week, and liked the song. The vid looked better on TV.

There aren't a ton of 'cool' rap 'music videos', but a lot that try.

         

im leery of any video that opens with "....Presents" It relays a certain amount of self importance from the director that is unwarranted. But im sure Gil Green was really proud of this one and couldnt help himself. As for the video, i found it entertaining. Thats about it. And how does the Dizzee Rascal video resemble a rock video? It resembles a good video. BTW, Thanks progosk for the nod in your post.

         

Didn't really find any "wow" qualities in this video, but since the rap video with a rock concept subject came up I just posted a video on the main page that I did for Atmosphere that has a rock aesthetic applied to a hiphop track.

         

Agree with Kev and Prog, if a rap video is actually any good it works it way on here. That being said, it seems like the only videos that we've seen around here recently have all been directed by a certain someone. This has more to do with the overwhelming mediocrity of most rap videos (not songs), than any sort of Antville bias.

What I meant by the Dizzee Rascal comment is that, of course DR is technically hip-hop, but the posting of that video has nothing to do with villeans liking Mainstream American Hip-hop. First off it was posted because we're all W.I.Z. fanboys. Second Dizzee has practically nothing to do with the American hip-hop scene. He's beloved by bloggers not normal hip-hop fans, you don't see him popping up on many American mixtapes these days. When I think of normal hip-hop fans I think of people who actually care about the new Young Jeezy/Lil Wayne/T.I. album, not grime.

As for the Rock vs. Rap asthetic, it's no secret that most rap videos are performance based. Of course there are going to be exceptions, but a good narrative video for an underground rapper isn't going to change my opinion on the genre. If I see a video like that for the new Fabulous single then I'll be impressed.

and btw Spit, if you're going to be posting streaming rap videos use OnSmash, the quality's better.

Also Gourley has new Rich Boy video on his site. It looks like he's going through a marching band phase right now.

         

Other thoughts: most rap videos are performance because so much much rap relies on the bravado and charisma of the MC. For the rapper, not appearing in the video is a risky/illogical move.

Also rap lyrics are usually more literal, so it doesn't make sense to have abstract narrative concepts. If the song is obviously about Diamonds (i.e. the new fabulous single) then the video can't be about a stop motion robot. The lyrics for that Atmosphere song were more abstract so the video lends itself to that type of treatment, but Atmosphere is the exception.

The best you can hope for with a rap video is a creative take on the performance genre. (i.e. Hype's early work and the best work of his imitators).

         

Not to get knee deep in this issue again, but I think it's fundamental to how we view videos and how we determine what's 'cool' and what isn't. Okay OTC, 'if a rap video is actually any good it works its way on here', but that seems like a bold way of saying that what the average hip-hop enthusiast wants in a video 'isn't good'. And I think that statement gets a little tricky when we realize that it infers that a 'good' rap video is one that looks more like a rock video. I don't want to take a definitive side in this discussion, and I don't want to represent any kind of ideology, but I do think its a topic that warrants some thought. Are our expectations for visual expression in hip-hop formed in such a way that we can't fully embrace it as a medium unless it sheds its' cultural signifiers?

Additionally, all youse's hip-hop-haterz!

         

progosk is the master of interiorsentencelinking!

         

it's a chip on your shoulder that you need to heal, spit.

"Are our expectations for visual expression in hip-hop formed in such a way that we can't fully embrace it as a medium unless it sheds its cultural signifiers?"

1. mainstream hiphop vids are, at best, a genre - not a medium per se.
2. yes.

         

As for Gil, he's actually done some good stuff. I've warmed to his Doe Boy Fresh vid, too. I saw this DJ Khaled vid on TV yesterday, and it's decent and kinda fun.

         

"The best you can hope for with a rap video is a creative take on the performance genre"

erm... doesn't this hold true for most genres of music videos?

(ps: does el-p count as mainstream?)

         

Spit: "saying that what the average hip-hop enthusiast wants in a video 'isn't good'"

I already made a few guesses as to why most rap videos are performance, but I also think that in general hip-hop fans care less about the video as an art form than rock or pop fans. Rap videos are important in that they help the rapper cultivate their image, you can tell that a rapper is successful b/c he's sitting on top of his new Rolls-Royce. But they're not really seen as an art form by the fans. You would never see Three Six Mafia do a fan video contest b/c rap fans wouldn't care enough to make a video (and making a rap video without money, cars, or rappers would be a ridiculous idea in the first place). Also think of how many fewer 'iconic' rap videos there have been that 'iconic' rock/pop videos, only a handful come to mind; Triumph, 99 Problems, Sabotage, some Biggie videos and Hype's work. And I can't even think of a single iconic country video. Actually country and rap both treat videos in fairly similar ways. mvs are an important part of both genre's infastructures but they only use them as promotional material, the videos themselves remain largely disposable.

"infers that a 'good' rap video is one that looks more like a rock video."

No, not looking like a "rock video" (whatever that looks like), I just like to see rap videos that feature things like story and creativity. Rock videos don't own narrative.

Progosk: "doesn't this hold true for most genres of music videos?"

Yes and no, the more mainstream you get in any genre the more performance videos you see. But more rock and pop artists respect videos, see Bjork, Madonna, U2, Coldplay, Red Hot Chilipeppers etc. (I guess for rap there's the Beastie Boys and Kanye West but not much else).

"ps: does el-p count as mainstream?"

No, definitely not.

Alright, well this post is almost to the bottom of the page so I'm done with this.

PS: a more interesting question for another day. What effect has Pitchfork had on bringing mainstream rap to the indie rock world?

         

Iconic country? Tough category, but I'll propose Johnny Cash "Hurt" and "Delia's Gone," then, to continually stretch it, Iron & Wine "Naked As We Came," Sheryl Crow "Home," Bonnie "Prince" Billy "Cursed Sleep," Shania Twain "Man, I Feel Like a Woman!" and Jon Bon Jovi "Blaze of Glory" :)

MV iconography is too high-falutin' for the country scene, at least the way we understand it. Are parts of Redneck Woman iconic? Goodbye Earl?

         

hiphop&misogyny - saul williams weighs in, profoundly, on the debate. "We cannot address the root of what plagues Hip Hop without addressing the root of what plagues today’s society and the world."