Before we crown kings and rejoice over the ville's first round of awards, I pose the obvious: Has there been some ballott stuffing in regards to the above? I say so. Sound off inside...

         

so like any interested party member/voter, I've been watching the leads over the past few days, and I had a feeling about these awards. I say things went sour toward the end and there's been some serious ballot stuffing.

the people who WANT TO win, ARE GOING to win. Do 50+ really think r bloomberg is our best new director? Am I crazy to say that's impossible. I dont mean to pick on him per se, but he's the most obvious of the bunch.

some other fish in the bucket:

• Spinto band for best animated (waverly push)
• Seb Martel best art direction (fishy for reasons of Arno S also having high director noms, he at least deserves it over RB). To say it's from all the people who visit his site is not really passable in my eyes but seems excusable considering kevathens' notice of arno having a post on his site that says vote for me at antville.
• Dual Hot Chip noms (which I guess is the most believable of the bunch).

capt'nmarc made a comment a while ago and I think he was right, the google effect might've been best used to invite voters. Lurkers are one thing - but the big rush is something a little suspect...

I don't know who's in charge, but is there any way to keep an eye on who's voting and under what IP address?

sound off. This is the ville's first round and it would be a shame to have this go sour.

         

Don't take it seriously. For example why Koichiro Tsujikawa isn't listed? videos.antville.org

I'm not going to complain because i haven't worked on this. It's just a community celebrating x or y. Nothing to cry about. If you want the prize work your PR. (hint: waverly)

         

I voted for Ramon. He put a call to all his friends on his myspace page.

home.myspace.com

so did Mill pond records. Also there was a call on his brother's blog. That's why he got those votes. guess he's got friends that will vote for him.

true though that this is a flaw in any "fair" elections. I always thought this award thing was a bit fishy.

         

MOOGAFUFU has a point. The ramon thing is less important. The flaw is in the opening voting - something we all noticed in the beginning. But it's hard to judge, cause just having progosk and kev and a handful of others vote might've been too clicky and narrow in opinion.

         

would be interesting to know what the average # of votes were. also.. an IP address can be identified, but i'm guessing that some prod co's got the whole office to vote so that might appear under a single IP address....

anyone know this stuff?

I see allot of high votes and not just in B.N.Director

         

To me this is a non-issue - I think overall the Awards are a success - but I'll throw in an argument:

Awards ceremonies of these types - voted on by the community itself - are easily tainted by friendships and other working relationships. An open comment vote may have stymied the possibility of these questions, but that was Progosk's choice.

I don't think acquiring IP addresses will solve our problems, unless someone volunteered to map them out and connect them with suspect parties. [When it's not, as you say, painfully obvious.]

Had we open balloting, it would still be highly likely that Bloomberg, Salters, Waverly, or visitors from sensibleerection or waxy, could cause stuffage. I'm a bit surprised that Prog set the date for Sunday, since that would allow time for things like this to develop. But neither of us are professional pollsters.

A suggestion: Fish: Do a run-off today, and by the time Sunday rolls around we'll have enough info to make a good decision.

Next year things should run more smoothly (this is a worthy improvement on last year, imo), unless the Awards become negated by their influence.

For me, it's case closed :)

         

A bit OT but I usually just look at who got the most props in the comments posted about the work. I think the awards are just a bit of fun... Besides, even if you did track the voters, it'd be a bit of a challenge to track what are likely a bunch of dynamic-IPs. Incidentally, I'm a geek.

         

Don't Think We Haven't Noticed Antville Nominees

So fishbucket, friends of the director shouldn't be allowed to vote? Production company employees shouldn't be allowed to vote? Why not?

I will say that scrambling around trying to get your myspace friends and contact list to vote for you on a music video website might not be wrong, but it is a litte dorky.

         

A director spreading the word seems fine. It crosses the line if the band brings in their biased myspace legions. In that case, you'd notice things like a My Chemical Romance video getting 500 votes.

BTW, i don't there is any "waverly push" for spinto. It was very heavily nominated. That said, Zion I was ROBBED!

         

I'll say it again, this all comes down to a very insular selection process and voting system. Read: circle jerk. But come on, why take it so seriously?

With less than 150 votes in any one category (except "Best New Director"), you have to recognize that this is more a "which industry or wanna-be industry friends think person x is cool" contest, rather than a true reflection of the best videos of the year.

         

polls and their length - both my autonomous choices - are clearly to blame.

all the same, i stand by my comment to cap'n, except i'll add another point: since the results of the polls are visible to all, any shady stuff sticks out like a festering zit - quod erat demonstrandum.

it looks pretty obvious that arno and ramon are getting just a little too much help from their friends. interestingly, though, that seems to be about it.

i think that the discussion of an open or (somehow/partially) closed antville is probably worth having someday. in this particular instance, i think the foray beyond circle jerk made for a bit more fun all round.

as regards the stuffing: what do y'all propose we should do? not award new director & art direction, and just leave those two polls open to eternity, their nominees as wayward erring souls? proclaim the other nominees ex-aequo winners? chime in: everyone forgets all too often that antville is a place where initiative is all you really need.

minor points:

• tracking IP & votes - seems extremely unlikely kris could be bothered, i believe.
• it is impossible to disallow anyone from voting here (currently).
• ai/fishbucket re: nominations - these were simply summed, and the most nominated made the finals. no fishy stuff there...
• spit: lol

         

familia - i, for one, would be interested to know your best of 2006 list.

also: i was at one point (in a moment of late inspiration via jesse.e) tempted to proclaim all the finalists winners and just leave it at that. i'm quite convinced the ultimate winners will be of much less interest than the finalist roundup.

         

award the final stuffed fish awards.

         

agreed progosk - the list of nominees is great as it stands. having winners is pointless, and with the current system, not down to any form of merit or quality. everyone is getting bitter, and its a shame.

I say throw out the votes and proclaim all finalists winners.

         

I've been against the idea of antville awards from the beginning. I think it goes against what makes this site unique and fun, which is the discussions and varied opinions of people who really care a lot about the whole medium. A community 'best of' list will only cause antville to become more and more of a niche. I've heard several people (in real life) recently make reference to this site's penchant for giving too much praise to a 'type' of music video. It's almost become too easy to identify which videos will get immediate praise and which will be panned. I'm afraid that the results of this poll will only cement that idea further. However, in its current state, the voting process is as good as it's going to get. Our best bet is to just take the whole thing with a grain of salt. I swear, if I see anyone listing "antville award winner" on their reel next year, I'm going to have a seizure.

         

Lol! And there you have it! Damn if that doesn't seal it: solidly, for next year; perhaps prematurely, for this?

         

Five words. It's a fucking internet poll.

         

if waverly had stuffed the ballot, you'd know about it!!!!

also, i think all the awards should have been decided solely by cap'nmarc.

         

Tell the truth, I was disappointed that The Chalets didn't make the award list. No Style was pretty cool, but Feel The Machine was freakin's sweet.

         

I am angry about your “ballot stuffing” accusations. I am a fan of Arno Salters (who didn’t “win”, by the way). I follow his website closely, I truly appreciate what he does, and when I saw that he had an Antville nomination I voted for him. When I went to vote I discovered that “Motus” had been nominated for best art direction, and I voted for it too. Artistically, the Motus clip combines a truly personal voice with a spot-on esthetic which stays faithful to the song, unlike certain others. I don’t think it’s fair to say that my votes are equivalent to “ballot stuffing”. Although I’m not in the closed circle of the “industry” itself, and admittedly wouldn’t have known about the vote had I not visited Salter’s site, I am a member of its audience and as such feel my vote should count. What really surprises me is the relatively small number of votes that all nominees got in all of the categories, including the “winners”. Maybe some people like it that way?

         

the most dissapointing thing about the nominations is the lack of diversity in genre's of music nominated, granted most hip-hop and mainstream pop videos suck and as a fan and member of antville i didn't do my job in promoting the ones that where good this year, there still seems to be a rather small portion of the music video community represented in these awards. there are no country videos either, it's almost exclusively indie music - and I know most of the interesting stuff going on in music and film is going on in indie genres. But there where a number of great hip-hop, pop and country videos made this year (including Justin Timberlake's "My Love"), even if they are glossy and often redundant. Case in point is Obtusity's pick for hip-hop video of the year, Juvenile's "Get Ya Hustle On."

obtusity.blogspot.com

         

judithfog, I agree the Chalets were robbed. Actually a lot of great videos were overlooked. My top 5 best of 2006 would have been the Chalets "Feel the Machine", Jay-Z's 99 Problems, Beastie Boys "Sabotage", Michael Jackson's Thriller and Walt Disney's Fantasia.

         

agentle/iluvmm: it's kinda lame to whine when you didn't even bother to nominate.

oh, and: all but the moot polls are now closed. wouldn't you all love to hear from arno&ramon?

next pile-ons: Most Robbed, and, dulcis in fundo, Worst Music Video. (Rev it up, antville bitchmasters!)

         

i have decided to rethink my life and go raise chipmunks in Belize. Ramon - you interested?

         

I've already had a rethink. I'm now in an institution watching late Elia Kazan movies.

         

Tsk! Tsk! I do hope the accusations dat liken Antville to "Dunny In The Wold" are rigorously pursued and proved completely unfounded

         

just a qiuck thought..... how many of the nominated videos were actually made in the last 6 months of the year, it seems alot of videos made in the first half of the year have gone un-noticed!

         

fish et al: Can we close the art direction and best new director categories (ref) yet? No initiatives on the subject?

         

This is so silly.

         

“Dunny in the Wold” hits the nail right on the head. As a newcomer to the “ville”, I had been watching with interest and pleasure, then irritation, then amusement and now commiseration to the stink surrounding the voting. I mean, at the site where the music video industry suppposedly hangs out on a daily basis they can’t even scrounge up more than a measly 170 votes in the most voted-on category? That’s pitiful. Or aren’t they trying? Come on guys, this is INTERNET !! It’s on the WORLD WIDE Web. Where is your audience hiding? Maybe you should ALL have a rethink. Who am I to judge? I’m Time Magazine’s Man of the Year.

         

erm... judithguy: welcome, firstoff. second: to come in bitching, while suited with the urges of the 'ville's soft underbelly, is not exactly the best politick for teh betterment of a neighbourhood.

you might be interested in studying current statistics of website participation. it is a general rule that roughly 1 percent of visitors make up the active part of online communities. antville has somewhere between 3000 and 4000 visitors each day. the fact that more than 100 of these (so: roughly triple the typical) went through the bother of (presumably) watching two hours of videos and then formulating their twelve single votes, is an indication of heavy participation.

studying the facts tends to make opinions less peregrine...

         

Okay, well then, I take back what I said. Congratulations on a GREAT turnout. P.S. I liked the 'peregrine'!

         

I woz jus' taking the micky outta fishbuckets concerns I did not mean 'Dunny In The Wold' to be taken as an actual voice ov dissent to any underhand shenanigans

The nominees so posted seem to have merit, I did not find any I watched, out ov place, given the ppl who post, discuss n presumably nominate stuff on antville are often rockcentric And thats fair enuff I actually enjoyed watching stuff that I normally would pass when posted in every day runnings

I end by saying A lurker is not often a voter though Progosk puts it more elegantly than me

         

Progosk:

"familia - i, for one, would be interested to know your best of 2006 list."

I try to look at these as a whole, rather than breaking them into categories. I think any one of these is worthy of "video of the year".

Basement Jaxx - "Take Me Back To Your House" Bonnie "Prince" Billy - "Cursed Sleep" I Love You But I've Chosen Darkness - "The Owl" The Knife - “Marble House (Director's Cut)” Vitalic - “Poney Pt.1 (Birds)”

As for director/new director of the year, it strikes me as more a popularity contest than an indication of their quality of output. For example, Chris Hopewell wasn't on the list. That just strikes me as bizarre. Maybe the Antville list was suffering from small pond syndrome?

         

'Chris Hopewell' bizarre? u dain't even go as far as nominating him 'familiar', how can u complain?

The comment 'small pond syndrome' might be also more ov a dig had u added observations regarding lick ov Latin 'n Asian nominees......

Ain't such a small world after all!

         

Hopewell's been around since 2003, so I'd d/q him for 'best new'. As for 'best d,' he's only apparently done three this year. (I didn't vote for Jaron, btw, who did 2.) He is quite a talent, though. Marble House is in RESFEST this year.

         

I didn't bother nominating anyone, really. I mentioned Ben, but that was it. Why take the time to nominate when I'm not behind the idea?

For Hopewell: Not best new, just best this year. I thought he did four? Two for Young Knives, one for The Knife, and another for Franz. All in very different styles.

Anyway, small pond goes very deep in this case. I mean, sure, you can call out the lack of Latin or Asian nominees. But then why not mention the lack of Japanese nominees, or how there are no Chinese videos, or ANYTHING African or Indian? Where do you draw that line? My point is, even within this small indie-tronic genre, what we've got here is a limited subset.

         

or Martian, or, or.. Web 3.0 covers our moral asses, there. I hope mvstills gives us some more Mexican/S. American coverage, as he's been doing.

         

I don't have much faith in elections across the wide scheme of things. In this it's no different from political or yearly elections for entertainment. The requirement that someone 'must' win seems a little silly along with a limited ballot list.

Does anyone really have faith in a voter to make a proper decision? Without a level of fandom getting in the way. Do we ask the voters to explain why they voted for someone, do we expect them to weigh the odds against their own sensibilities vs the merits of what is a 'good' video? Can they seperate music and the like of a person to view it subjectively as it applies to each category? Or are we suffered to commercialism and popular demand, the waving of what has been seen time and time again. Or a pity vote from someone who makes a call to all his 'real' fans.

         

Sorry for the confusion I was assuming none inclusion ov Japanese and Chinese clips was implied in a catch all 'asian' (for u also have Korean, Thai, Viet etc)

         

Reference to Asian is pretty gross when you consider the differences between the cultures. But whatever, we all know that Germans, French, and English share the same sense of aesthetics and social values, so why bother to delineate between those Asians (which also includes India)? I was pretty much saying: don't be a contrary twat; I wasn't talking about regionalism.

         

That's a good point there familar. But what if.. the asian was a eurasian invasion, of an alien nation. And then... I'm French and I take serious exception to you lumping me in with a bunch of anglo nazis. but at the same time I"m asian french.. thus eurasian and.. what the fuck are you talking about?

         

Sounds like this (dir. Kevin Godley)..

         

Eurasian? Pan-American? Fascist globalist!

         

Ist Post

I mean, sure, you can call out the lack of Latin or Asian nominees. But then why not mention the lack of Japanese nominees, or how there are no Chinese videos, or ANYTHING African or Indian? Where do you draw that line? 2nd post so why bother to delineate between those Asians (which also includes India)? I was
pretty much saying

I didn't? u did or can u not read your own post

As for

But whatever, we all know that Germans, French, and English share the same sense of aesthetics and social values,

Its pop music videos we are bloody talking about not religious folk tunes from Mount Fuji or whereever The twat ain't me mate

         

Sarcasm and irony are completely lost on you, aren't they?

         

Clearly, but not as much as the irony ov a Bunch ov North Americans calling themselves "The Two Korea's" especially as ur the neighbours next door!

         

fishbucket et al: From what I can tell, the press release is going out with 'art dir' and 'best new' as open-ended: all nominees won.

         

Dunny in the Wold, Dunny in the Wold, Dunny in the Wold (op.cit. robodrug . . . despite the disclaimer).

         

Bladrick reference. Clever.

         

Judith eva thought ov forming a Bananarama tribute band? U could call it Orangerama and rework the lyrics ov their ‘Robert De Nero’ hit into ‘Viktor Yushchenko’s Waiting’ He’d be ‘talking Ukrainian’ obviously

         

robodrug. Huh? If anybody does it though, you should get all the credit.